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June 14, 2005
Thoughts/rant on tires, etc.
With all the tire problems at Pocono and the last couple of years, I think it's time to bring back the tire war as some of the commenters of this blog have mentioned.
I'm not sure how long most of you have been fans, but back when I started following NASCAR, they had a choice of Hoosiers or Goodyear, which they called a tire war. NASCAR, in their infinite wisdom decided that one tire manufacturer would be better and signed with Goodyear and it's been that way for a long time. But maybe it shouldn't be that way.
I read an article last year about Firestone being interested in providing tires for NASCAR and they were supposedly working on a tire to show to NASCAR, I haven't heard anything else on it.
I think it's time for NASCAR to open it up again and let different tire manufacturers produce a tire, get NASCAR's approval for safety, etc. and let the teams decide which tire they want to use. Even if they only bring back the old tire war of Hoosier and Goodyear, I think it would be better than it is now, give the teams a choice.
Most everyone said the rumble strips are hard on tires, this year they have the softer compound tire, what do you think will happen at the road courses where they are always running over those rumble strips? Hopefully, they'll have the right mindset and use the old tires from last year, or at least a harder compound tire for the road courses.
All this talk about proposed changes in scheduling of the Busch races to help boost the series won't work. I don't think coupling the Busch Series with IRL for weekends would really "help" the Busch Series like NASCAR thinks. Helping the series is NASCAR's "reasoning," but I think it's more to try and quell the complaints about Cup drivers running in the series. This would put more Cup/Truck weekends together, do you really think that the Cup drivers that want to get the "feel" of the track or the ones that just love to race, won't jump in a truck and join the races? If this proposed change happens, I bet you'll see more Cup drivers in the Craftsman Truck Series.
On to the Craftsman Truck Series. I've watched this series since it's beginning and granted, it is getting more promotion and coverage, mainly due to the Speed Channel, I still think NASCAR could do more to promote it. As an example, a few weeks back, when both the Busch Series and Cup Series were running night races on Friday and Saturday night, the truck race was on Sunday afternoon, that's no biggie in itself. The problem came on NASCAR's website, once the Cup race was run on Saturday night, they took down the scheduling and everything for that weekend, you had to dig through their pages to find anything on qualifying, practice or anything about the truck race. Granted, it is considered the lowest tier of the big three, but it is one of the big three and should be promoted more by NASCAR.
Ending on a lighter, happier note, Rusty Wallace has the longest streak of races run without a DNF, currently 27 races. Hopefully, my bragging about it doesn't jinx him for Michigan.
June 14, 2005 in NASCAR | Permalink
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Tracked on Jun 18, 2005 6:12:59 PM
Comments
Tom, what happened at the USGP is what happens in F1 - it is an F1 issue, not a tire war issue.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 21, 2005 9:35:18 AM
Wow, I think that's the longest comment ever! Sorry, I'm an amateur writer here guys, I love to write.
-Tom
Posted by: Tom | Jun 20, 2005 12:36:00 PM
Different Tom here, I'm the guy that always posts, it doesn't matter though. You say that having a durable tire makes for great racing? How 'bout having tires that hold up like in past years, I loved Newman winning races bceause of the tires holding up and stretching his gas, he blocked and checked up to save fuel, then when the time was right, he went crazy, I loved that. When we had the stiffer, more durable tires, the commentators, and the fans LOVED it! Every week people "I can't believe he drove 120 laps and got the victory, it's amazing, so unbelievable!". Hell, I HATE Kurt Busch, but even I appreciated his efforts to save his tires, and his fuel. Now, it's like, if you don't get four tires, you're going to fall back, if you don't get tires at all, you're DONE. If you get tires at lap 160 and the guy behind you got tires at lap 170...watch out, because he's going to blow by you real soon. These softer tires are crap, they heat up too fast, get sticky, then get extremely slippery. As I said before, NOBODY knows what in the hell is going to happen with the tires. The tires they give the teams to test are different from the ones that they run in the race, they change the tires every week, and the tires are highly unpredictable. Even if we saw the same tires on the car week in and week out, each week would be much different because every time the weather changes, the tires do something totally different. We need to find a happy medium to what we had before, and the CRAP we've got now. I realize some people here are defending the tires, but seriously, look at the sport, it's getting to be totally unenjoyable. Fan support is down, and people are turning on the IRL and Truck series. We go from the hardest tire to the softest tire in the matter of a two year span, that's not enough time to "adapt". We really do need to rethink it, and make a harder compound than we've got now, but a lot softer than what we've had in the past. That way taking care of your tires shows, as well as handling. You almost CAN'T race a full green flag run with these tires anymore. You get your fuel almost all the way down and your lap times have already dropped off significantly. Just put it this way, lets say after about a half of a whole green flag run, with just slightly under another half to go, lets say an entire run is 55 laps, there's another 25 left. There's a caution, and nobody comes in except for the last guy on the lead lap, and the lucky dog, lets say there's 20 cars now. They both change four tires, the prior last car on the lead lap fills his tank, while the lucky dog leaves his fuel alone. Now the lucky dog's car is 11 gallons, or 88 pounds rather, lighter than the guy in front of him, but they're both still on fresher tires than the rest of the field. They both know the can make it on fuel, even with one taking fuel, and the other opting not to, they can even make it in the event of a G/W/C finish. What do you think is going to happen? 100 pounds adds about a second to a lap time, and for some reason, nobody in NASCAR seems to realize that, so they "top 'er off" every single chance they get, even at the end of a race, I know the fuel isn't weightless. Well, with that said, the lucky dog's times are going to be almost a second faster than the car in front of him, and with them both on fresher tires, they'll be going well over a second faster than the rest of the field. That means, the lucky dog will be gaining two seconds per lap on the competition, and just blowing by the other drivers. With 25 laps to go and a 30 second defecit...can he do it? Well, using my incredible math skills (alright, so it wasn't hard), we now know that two seconds per lap equate to 50 seconds in 25 laps, if you factor in traffic, this guy will no doubtedly reach the leader's back bumper with a few laps to go, and he will also eventually get the win! That's what happens, all the time. See, it used to make for an AWESOME storyline, and cool pictures and intense news articles. Now it's just like "who's going to do it this week? Now THAT to me is boring. Jimmie Johnson did it to Bobby Labonte, Carl Edwards did it to Jimmie Johnson, and just Saturday, Carl Edwards did it to Martin Truex Junior. Tony Stewart came close to pulling it off yesterday, but couldn't complete the task. It's also happened several other times this year, and while people in the past used to go "Oh man, can he do it?", now it's just like "well, when do you think he's going to do it?". I was rooting for Edwards Saturday because I think that guy is great, even though I don't like the man in the dumb hat or his racing team. I think that Kurt Busch is a cocky arrogant bastard, Mark Martin is the same way, he never won a championship yet he acts like he's the greatest around. Matt Kenseth is a poor sport and he too is a cocky son of a bitch. Then we have Gregg Biffle, I'm sure this guy's story is good, but he was like, a 34 year old rookie, what's wrong pal, had to take 20 years of racing to make the show? Damn man, it's sad, this guy's only going to have like, a ten year career, he too acts like he's the best this sport has ever seen, does commercials like he's the best actor in the world. With all the endorsements you'd figure he can go pay for braces and other dental work to fix those jacked up teeth of his. You'd also think he'd do something about the bags under his eyes or something. And about Jack Roush, that guy looks like he belongs in The Wizard of Ozz, with his clothes too tight (like a fat black chick on Jerry Springer), and that damn hat secured as tight as it can go, cutting off circulation to his brain causing the blood to settle underneat the strap. Why does he need it secured down so tight? I mean, if it blows off, can't he just go buy another one? I think I need to buy that dude a derby and a suit or something, then make him pay me back for it. The guy is a millionaire, yet he dresses like the manager at your local McDonald's on his day off while walking his dog through the park on a sunny day, seriously, use some of the money on yourself pal, and not just on planes that are going to "mysteriously" crash in the middle of nowhere. Instead of paying the tester off in order to become certified...just learn how to fly the damn plane and there won't be any problems. Ok, enough about my beef with Jack Roush's munchkenness. That leaves only one Roush driver that I have to talk about. Carl Edwards, I really think that he needs to be with a different team, he's way too damn humble, apologetic, sincere, and smart to be a Roush driver. This guy is a class act like no other, and he's only in his first full year! He has no enemies, learns from his mistakes, yet he takes crap from nobody. This guy is going to be a champion, and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it happened this year! He reminds me of my favorite driver whe he was young...Jeff Gordon. At the same time, Edwards is driving like a seasoned veteran, so in that aspect, he is BETTER than a young Gordon. I think Edwards has the potential (lets hope he lives up to it), to be the greatest driver in recent history, and especially of his generation. I think that unlike with Gordon, how he didn't have a real rival, except for maybe Earnhardt, but even Earnhardt was too far before Gordon's time, veteran vs. youngun, Carl Edwards will have a rival. I think that he and Kyle Busch will be vying for all the records in a few years time. Given the recent success of Kyle Busch, and him learning from his mistakes as well. He's almost a mirrored image of Carl Edwards only...I'm sure Carl Edwards' story is cooler...and Edwards even does backflips! Flip puppet boy, flip! Yes, I'm telling him to win, that flip can't grow old. I think the only reason it keeps people so captivated is because we're all waiting for his miraculous career to be cut short by him slipping (as he almost did Saturday) and not completing the flip landing on his neck. That would be a sad day no matter what happened. Best case scenario, he'd miss a year while in traction, then return. I say that he should flip all he wants, but the first time he lands on his stomach, he should stop flipping.
-Tom
Posted by: Tom | Jun 20, 2005 12:35:02 PM
Be careful what you ask for, you might actually gewt it. See USGP at Indy on hwat can happen when you have a "Tire War"
Posted by: tom | Jun 19, 2005 7:28:46 PM
M Benson, having tires that last to where teams only have to put three or four times in a 500-mile race is not what makes boring racing.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 18, 2005 2:52:40 PM
"And 1/3 of the field is not really "a few teams."... This would mean 14 teams had tire problems... and that NEVER happened.
"The reason that most of the setups didn't work this week is because NOBODY knows what these tires are going to do"... These are the same tires used in VEGAS... and teams are given recommended air pressures which differ at each track.
"but they use the same tired excuse; tire pressure and camber." ... So I guess the 8 team saying that once that got the air pressure right they never had another tire problem is also an excuse? I guess the 9 team saying they inflicted these problems on themselfs is another excuse... Or maybe the frame rubbing on Tony's car was another excuse.
"Goodyear needs to start warning teams of blow out conditions,"... Newmans team was warned... did they head that warning?
"With soft tires you have only one choice - four tires per stop." ... Many teams took only "right" side tires on that green flag pitstop... the only ones that took 4 were Mark... how many of the left went down on the last leg of the race besides "all knowing Newmans"?
You are all quick to judge Good Year and Nascar... I hope you'll aren't this quick to judge in your everyday life... And if they make a tire that NEVER needs changing... then ya'll would bitch because the racing was boring... the 48 was griping at the beginning of the year about the knew tires... and look where they are in points... they have adjusted.
Posted by: M Benson | Jun 17, 2005 8:56:24 AM
M. Benson
Chill dude..
Are you on some sort of medication?
Lew
Posted by: Lew | Jun 17, 2005 1:34:54 AM
Todd,
In 1994 Geoff Bodine didn't blow a lot of tires - his main reliability problem was engines. His deal with Hoosier enabled him to dominate the second half of the 1994 season in terms of laps led; he won three races and realistically should have won five more.
The softer tires don't add another factor into the equation, they detract a factor from the equation. With soft tires you have only one choice - four tires per stop. One of the biggest changes the tire wars brought to the sport was that Hoosier came out with a tire at some races that had the greatest consistency ever seen; their speeds didn't vary and teams were able to skip tire changes again and again and not lose anything in speed or durability.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 17, 2005 12:25:52 AM
M Benson, I think quite a few of us here do have our facts straight.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 17, 2005 12:21:07 AM
Steve, the tire was was irrelevent to what happened to Neil Bonnett and Rodney Orr. The tire war years were a time when more drivers won races and the old monopolies were suddenly broken - because with the tire war the old favoritism granted by the tire companies went away.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 16, 2005 6:36:51 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread so I hope I don't repeat what someone else has said (can't be bothered to read through 30+ messages).
Here goes: Just take a look at Formula 1 with 2 tire makers. If you don't have the right tires for a particular race you're nowhere. Keep a level playing field!!!
Posted by: David | Jun 16, 2005 1:01:56 PM
All you supposed informed fans are nuts... DO YOU THINK THEY USE THE SAME FRIGGIN TIRE AT ALL THE RACES? They use different compounds for different tracks... the same tiore they used at Pocono was used at Vegas.. and is to be run again at Pocono and Bristol ONLY. Get your friggin facts straight before you start bashing Good Year for not doing their homework... I'm glad none of you are making the decision in NASCAR right now.
Posted by: M Benson | Jun 16, 2005 10:18:27 AM
JON... about Good Year using the same excuse... well I heard whiny Wallace interviewed after the DOVER race... last year at DOVER he kept blowing tires... so this year they worked on different camber and air pressure and DIDN'T blow 1 tire... SO TO SAY THAT CAMBER AND AIR PRESSURE ISN'T AN ISSSUE IS BS. I'd tend to listen to Whiny Wallace before I'd listen to some fan who has no knowledge of the sport.
Posted by: M Benson | Jun 16, 2005 10:07:45 AM
That tire they ran at Pocono had a stiffer side wall... and a softer compound they said... I'm not one to jump on the band wagon of Good Year bashers since the problem seemed to be isolated to a handful of teams.. You can't blame every flat on the "bad tire" anyway... EVERY race someone has a tire go down due to contact... or debris or they just happened to get a bad tire... BUT WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD WAS PERFECT!
Posted by: M Benson | Jun 16, 2005 10:01:12 AM
During the tire wars of the 94 season, it seemed like Geoff Bodine either won or crashed (because of a blow out) running the Hooiser tire. I would bet it boiled down to money then just like everything else does in NASCAR. He was a owner/driver in that black Exide #7 T-Bird and I would only be guessing but he probably got sponsorship for being the first to go with them.
While I agree with Kelly that a tire war is not a good thing for NASCAR. Hoosiers are made in the Hoosier state. And tires SHOULD be a factor in the race. Drivers that do not abuse thier tires should be at an advantage over those who do. It was not that long ago that the tires were so hard that Kurt Busch won at Bristol running approx. 120 lap old tires. He did not put on new tires, gained the coveted track position and was able to stay out front for the win. Tires were the #1 factor for that win.
I like the softer tires as it adds another factor into the equation. Goodyear does a good job overall. Let's not run them out of town because of one bad day.
Posted by: Todd | Jun 16, 2005 6:00:43 AM
Hmmm, I was actually very involved in the tire war back in the early 90s and it seems very few of you "experts" remember what happened except Tom and Steve. While I agree something needs to be done so the tires are NEVER a factor in a race unless it comes down to who takes two or four, a tire war is not, and never will be the answer. And lets not forget Goodyear racing tires are made right here in America and they were dedicated to the sport before the sport was cool. With so many sponsors jumping on the bandwagon of success, can't we support a longtime any-kind-of-weather sponsor anymore?
Posted by: Kelly | Jun 15, 2005 10:20:32 PM
"Even if they only bring back the old tire war of Hoosier and Goodyear, I think it would be better than it is now, give the teams a choice."
I don't want to ever see another 'tire war' between Goodyear and Hoosier in the Cup Series. In my opinion, it was that very situation that killed Neil Bonnett and Rodney Orr at Daytona in 1994.
"Most everyone said the rumble strips are hard on tires, this year they have the softer compound tire, what do you think will happen at the road courses where they are always running over those rumble strips?"
Michael Waltrip said on Inside Nextel Cup Racing that he ran over those rumble strips all day long with absolutely no problems. I know many others did as well. Same tire. What you had were a few teams who had camber and / or suspension issues. My two cents, thanks....
Posted by: Steve | Jun 15, 2005 10:07:36 PM
Bring back Hoosier, Firestone and whoever can make a
durable racing tire!
Posted by: David Kasminsky | Jun 15, 2005 4:42:48 PM
I have had an idea for NASCAR for a long time. IF you notice, a lot of people are better in Busch cars than Cup cars, and vise versa. What I don't understand is, why are they making the Busch cars capable of handling better than the cup cars and taking away power? That just means it's THAT much harder to jump to the next level. What they need to do is make the Busch and Cup cars equal. That way you can truly tell if a person has potential. The lower quality cars is what Arca and the Grand National Series (?) is for right? Up the power in the Arca cars a little bit, that way there's not a big difference between ARCA and Cup as well. I think that would be a much better talent evaluation. Also, how about making a rule change. reduce the CUP field a tiny bit (to get rid of field fillers), Maybe to say...38 or 39 cars? Then maybe even add 2 cars to Busch, which will then mean that there's 45 cars on the track. Then limit the Buschwacker participation to only ten cup drivers each week, and you can't have more than five years of cup experience, that would do away with a major veterans like Mark Martin coming in and winning races, I think that one is REALLY unfair. So that still leaves a whopping 35 Busch drivers, and limiting the talent of the CUP drivers coming in. Then to top that off, if a cup driver wins, it counts as a win with maybe...an asterisk? Then the top ranking Busch driver, if he's within the top five, gets credit for the BUSCH win, that too with an asterisk and an explination. But you still get the same money for your finishing order, regardless of cup or Busch. I know this plan needs adjustment...but what does everybody think? Oh, and yes, the Truck series IS the greatest thing out there right now, I love it, courteous yet rough, intelligent yet uneducated (most drivers with very little experience)...makes for damn good racing.
-Tom
Posted by: Tom | Jun 15, 2005 4:09:37 PM
The tire wars were a horendous time. Does anyone remember a driver by the name of Neil Bonnett. Both Goodyear and Hoosier were blowing tires left and right and putting the drivers into pre-safer barrier walls and then only into the hospital if they were lucky. Bill Elliot's team developed an infared tire temperture gauge to warn him of possible problems but NASCAR banned it because it contained computer chips. The tire war races made the Coke 600 look like a sprint race.
As for the cost of the tires, if you can get me a set of 4 high performance street tires for a $1000, I'll take them. Oh, by the way, I prefer hand made tires to those made on an assembly line. And, just for safety sake, can you have two or three other guys run some laps on them just to make sure they stand up. Come on folks, at a grand a piece Goodyear would be losing money. Have you ever stopped to look at how many engineers, not tire mounters, are at the track each day there are cars on the track. When is the last time you checked your tire pressure; each time a car comes into the pits the team is handed temperature readouts from three locations on each tire as well as the pressure.
The racing is so competitive today that crew chiefs take their cars to the limit and sometimes beyond. When they go beyond, they sometimes pay a price. I would not want to be the one setting the limits for the 8 car right now; the pressure to perform has got to be tremendous. It would be interesting to see what the presure and camber differences were between the 8 and the 15 car last weekend.
Posted by: Wilf | Jun 15, 2005 2:35:12 PM
This message is being brought to you by "BLACKTOP" the official raceway sealant of NASCAR! NASCAR should open up and allow different tire manufacturers to compete along with some other car parts. NASCAR is toooooooo commercialized these days! Goodyear needs to start warning teams of blow out conditions, granted running at or on the white line "corduroy" on the turns may have played a bit of a role. What is up with the rims breaking?
Posted by: Grumpy Old Man | Jun 15, 2005 12:49:16 PM
The tire problem at Pocono is the least of worries for NASCAR. The condition on the track in the tunnel turn is terrible. Jr and a few other drivers commented on it. Yes the rumble strips are hard on the tires but the tire issue has never been an issue in the past. Every one of the drivers hit that rumble strip but not all of them had the tire problem. I would think that it has something to do with the camber set-up and not the tire. It is unfortunate because a lot of good drivers weren't competitive because of it. I think that having tire war would be good for the comopetition but at the same time wouldn't it promote "cheating" amongst Goodyear and the other tire? NASCAR would have to inspect both manufacturer's tires for equalness. Rescheduling the Busch series is not the answer. I am all for Cup drivers getting all the information about the track before the Sunday race. However, I firmly believe that the Busch series race should be for those drivers making their way up to the Cup. Every weekend you have at least 5 cup drivers racing in the Busch race and it is not fair to the Busch drivers who are trying to make a name for themselves. At the same it develops these drivers by putting them side by side with the best. It is kind of like the minor league system in baseball. The only time you see a major league star go down to the minors is to rehab from an injury that had him sidelined for a long period of time. The minor leagues is there to develop young talent not to provide the major leaguers another way to hone their skills. Let the Busch drivers races against themselves to hopefully get to the Cup level. What about the other cup drivers that don't pull double duty? What if they decided they wanted to race as well, what happens to the regular busch drivers who are racing for a championship, move over? They don't have the luxury of racing the day before in a different series at the same track. Cup drivers need to level the playing field in both the Busch and Cup series -- race only on Sundays (Saturday Night for the night races).
Posted by: Darren | Jun 15, 2005 8:43:46 AM
Tom You'll never see "Firestone" on a sidewall. It's parent is Bridgestone and all racing tires from them will be labeled Bridgestone or Bridgestone/Firestone.
Posted by: Marc | Jun 15, 2005 4:28:02 AM
I don't know, I always looked at Goodyear Tires as tires for passengers vehicles and sure, they've won a LOT in the past, but seriously...what good have they done lately? NONE! They're monopolizing the sport, and screwing it up, I mean, I still wouldn't trust anything else on my car out front, but I wouldn't go race my car either! A LOT of things have been good in the past, but have failed in time, Goodyear is one of them, nick name the 2005 NASCAR season "Badyear" now, for the BORING racing we're getting. I guess you're right about Hoosier being great for short tracks. While I hate to admit it (because I hate the company), Firestone makes a really great racing tire for very competitive racing leagues around the world, and Michelin is also a great tire manufacturer. Hopefully we will see some changes coming up, because I really would like to see what another tire company can do. Here's one, how 'bout Hoosier only go to short tracks and what not and the others go to the other tracks? I think that Firestone would be best for the road courses as well. Eh, anyway, that's my two cent, whether it's "right" or not, I still don't see Goodyear as a racing tire Marc. Thanks for the history though, it really is appreciated.
-Tom
Posted by: Tom | Jun 15, 2005 3:54:35 AM
Lew: "I don't care which tire Nascar uses, as long as it's something consistent and NOT Firestone!"
Come on, there is zero cooralation between a street tire and a race tire. Over and above that thiir parent is Bridgestone (parent Toyota) who are testing a NASCAR tire and may be allowed to supply tires if and when Toyota enter Cup competition. And to add to the mix Michelin is also rumored to be in discussion with NASCAR.
Posted by: Marc | Jun 15, 2005 2:21:03 AM
Aaron, you are correct about how teams lobbied NASCAR for lower downforce and softer tires - and they are reaping the results in more cautions, more aeropush, and more blowouts.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 15, 2005 1:02:09 AM
It is kind of interesting that Firestone used the exact same reason the Goodyear is using for their tires going bad; tire pressure. Maybe I should say Goodyear is using the exact same excuse Firestone tried to use for their tires blowing out and causing the roll overs.
Posted by: Jon | Jun 14, 2005 11:30:03 PM
There were some great comments on tires.
All I know is that Firestone recalled no tellin how many tires in the 80's because all the Fords were rolling over after blowouts....
I don't care which tire Nascar uses, as long as it's something consistent and NOT Firestone!
Lew
Posted by: Lew | Jun 14, 2005 10:04:26 PM
Marc & Mike, thanks for updating me on when Hoosier was still in NASCAR, thats good info. To those who are talking about NASCAR and Goodyear making the tires softer out of their own greed, remember one thing...many of the race teams lobbied for the softer compounds. Besides those who are hollering about the softer tires are probably the same ones complaining about all the fuel mileage wins before the change. The change was made so that the tires would not last longer than a full fuel run.
Posted by: Aaron | Jun 14, 2005 9:25:48 PM
Lets first start with a little history, first to fill out Aaron's version (not to be critical just add to it).
It would’t be the first instance of NASCAR teams having two tires to chose from. 1988 saw nine NASCAR Winston Cup events won on Hoosier tires and the ‘89 Daytona 500 was won by Darrel Waltrip who rode home on Hoosiers. (And extremely good gas mileage) Hoosier later that year withdrew from NASCAR to conduct 3-year radial R & D program. They returned to the Busch Series in 1991 and Winston Cup in 1994 winning 4 races with Geoff Bodine. Because the extreme competition between the two firms resulted in ever increasing compounds that were "on the edge" NASCAR eventually, with the suppliers permission, allowed drivers contracted to one tire to switch if they felt the need to. That included during a race. It also led to NASCAR starting the "tire count rule" where both companies had to provide enough tires for each event for each team (about 2000), the smaller Hoosier company couldn't compete under that restriction. While the conspiracy theorists
can say NASCAR it was another evil plot, Mark Martin was quoted at the time as saying "They're going to kill someone," and he wasn't the only voice expressing safety concerns.
And this is a little special history lesson for "Tom" who falsely believes Goodyear isn't a racing tire manufacturer.
1901, Goodyear's first foray into racing, and its first victory comes when Henry Ford puts Goodyear supplied rubber on his car sponsored by the Detroit Driving Club.
1916, Goodyear launches its first serious tire development program. Cars equipped with Goodyear Cord Tires begin dominating U.S. racing circuits.
1954, Goodyear conducts tire tests at Darlington, SC, for the NASCAR Convertible Series, using a tire designed for police cars.
Goodyear has produced and won with it's tires in every major racing series in the world.
Hoosier Tire company didn't start producing tires until 1957 and still produce excellent short track tires. Now Tom who is it that is the "racing tire manufacturer?
Posted by: Marc | Jun 14, 2005 8:53:09 PM
i think that there should be a limit on the number of busch and truck races that a full time nextel cup drive can run in. That will keep some of these buschwackers out of those races. There is no reason johnson, stewart,jr, biffle and harvick to be in all these busch races.
Posted by: 48fan | Jun 14, 2005 8:30:27 PM
It is obvious from watching the races this year that Goodyear and FranceCAR have finally screwed the pooch on the tires. More tires are blowing because of softer compounds, races are more boring because of cautions, most brought on by crappy tires, and because FranceCAR can't keep a spoiler, or any rule for that matter, for more than a season(if that) good teams who don't get a gazillion tests because they sponsor 5 cars, aren't competative. Something needs to be done or the miraculous surge of NASCAR popularity will eventually plummet, especially in this day of 30 second soundbite mentality. People can only watch HMS and Rousch win for so long.
As for the Trucks series. I have always enjoyed them. They are tougher racing and as someone said it is a go go go mentality. Get to the front. In the Cup series, it seems a sit back in watch strategy is prevelent. I also think that you don't have the jerk off personalities in the truck series like you do in Cup. There are some Cup drivers, and you all know who they are that nauseate you just at the mention of their name. I also find that the Truck race commentators actually commentate. The assclowns that Fox has for the cup race are nothing but irritating and spend more time talking about their own histories or showing us some stupid cutaway car a hundred times a race. Plus going to Speed Channel has helped it get exposure it wasn't getting with ESPN. After all, since speed has almost all the qualifying, Speed can easily promote the races during that. Something ESPN couldn't do because it had nothing. I see the truck races gaining in popularity even more, especially if FranceCAR starts adding more to Cup weekends, like they do the Busch.
Posted by: Brett | Jun 14, 2005 7:39:11 PM
Hey Don,
It looks like we agree on something. :)
I really enjoy the truck series especially all the beatin and banging.
If Goodyear actually came up with logical reasons it wouldn't be so hard to believe them, but they use the same tired excuse; tire pressure and camber.
Posted by: Jon | Jun 14, 2005 7:29:21 PM
Re your comment about the truck series.
I think the reason the old timer Cup drivers like driving the trucks, is because the drive more like the Cup cars of old.(60's, 70's)Personaly I like the trucks, they beat and bang on each other, putting on some old fashion racing, like the good old days before NASCAR tried to make everyone equal.
Posted by: Don | Jun 14, 2005 7:09:13 PM
Aaron, the "tire war" that is popularly referred to was actually two tire wars - 1988 and 1994. Hoosier Race Tire lost out the first time because it was too small and thus did not have as much money as Goodyear; the second time NASCAR passed a rule requiring any tire supplier to supply enough tires for the entire field, a rule intended to price Hoosier out of the field. It wasn't because of safety becuse the sport was not and is not safer with one tire supplier than it was with a tire war.
The benefits of a tire war are substantial - the most important benefit is that more teams get good tire deals and the favoritism that pervades Goodyear's monopoly is broken.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 14, 2005 5:58:34 PM
Aaron, there is a reason why teams are doing that - because the tires won't allow them to race.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jun 14, 2005 5:55:20 PM
The Hoosiers are STILL good RACING tires, Goodyear should stick to tires for passenger vehicles...Hoosier should be making the race tires, that's their business! The idiots keep trying to make the tires softer and softer thinking "Oh, this will mean people HAVE to pit"...no, it just means people don't know what the hell is going to happen week to week because you're changing the tire compound every week, and it's making people blow tires and fly into the wall. The reason that most of the setups didn't work this week is because NOBODY knows what these tires are going to do, use the same setup as last year, or two years ago, and you're bound to go sliding around into the wall in only half the time! I can't believe it, NASCAR and Goodyear should get a room together, but they should wear a RUBBER condom this time so they don't breed shitty racing with senseless wrecks. I'll be the first to say that seeing wrecks is cool, even though I want all of the drivers to be safe. But a car just going into the wall after 20 laps into a run is insane! All because of tire camber? What the hell? They've done that for years. I've made my point, it would all be GREAT if they just quit screwing with it, let the teams get a feel for what's going on. Oh, and if NASCAR wants to cut down the tire cost, why are THEY profitting from MAKING the teams use Goodyears, but Goodyear is charging over $1,000 per set of tires...plus on top of that, making them wear out quicker and quicker, and because they're softer, they're even MORE expensive! Why? WHY I ASK?! It's because NASCAR is getting it's money, screw the teams and what they do, they don't care about the teams, just as long as the board members of NASCAR get their fat ass paychecks!
-Tom
Posted by: Tom | Jun 14, 2005 4:22:50 PM
The "tire war" with Hossier only lasted one season - 1994 I believe it was. A serious problem developed with the safety of the tires because the competition resulted in teams using extremely low air pressures to increase the tires grip. NASCAR felt then that one tire supplier was not only a safer choice, but that the tires makeup could be also be better regulated.
The softer tire compounds have definitely caused problems this season, but I believe that most of the tire issues are due to aggressive setups and lower than minimum recommended air pressures the teams are using.
Posted by: Aaron | Jun 14, 2005 3:42:26 PM
With as many of the teams saying that it was self-inflicted as there were, blaming Goodyear is like blaming the fab shop for bent sheet metal after a Bristol race.
Posted by: Michael | Jun 14, 2005 2:49:11 PM
I think if one of NASCAR's interests is saving teams money, a tire war would be good. Giving one company a monopoly limits some teams, and opens up the possibility that goodyear can charge what it wants for their tires. If teams are given a choice, that opens up competition between tire manufacturers and drives prices down. Capitalism at its best!
Posted by: Marty | Jun 14, 2005 2:14:11 PM
If NASCAR felt there was sufficient reason to call Goodyear to the hauler, you can bet the company had some culpability for the ever-shready tires at Pocono. And 1/3 of the field is not really "a few teams."
I'd love to see NASCAR open up to a tire war, but as long as they make more money this way it'll never happen.
Wow, I'm kinda grumpy today. Go figure.
Posted by: Allison | Jun 14, 2005 12:57:00 PM
I'm not sure what the tire problems were at Pocono, but there were only a few teams that were having problems. And some admitted that their problems were probably their own fault due to either tire pressure or camber. So I don't think it's fair to criticize Goodyear for the problems of a few teams. And as for Rusty having the longest streak of races without a DNF, let me just say Woo Hoo!
Posted by: rustyfan | Jun 14, 2005 12:46:09 PM
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