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November 01, 2006
NASCAR penalizes Gordon
After saying the video was "inconclusive" of the incident, NASCAR came back Wednesday after more reviewing and heavily penalized Robby Gordon for the debris caution at Atlanta. The caution allowed Gordon to get back on the lead lap and finish tenth, while it trapped Jeff Burton, who was very vocal about the whole incident, a lap down to finish 13th.
NASCAR spokesmans Kerry Tharp said - It is a very serious matter when a team attempts to manipulate the outcome of a race.
Gordon lost 50 driver points, 50 owner points, fined $15,000 and put on probation until the end of the year. His crew chief was also fined $10,000 although not much was explained about why. I guess the penalty for the crew chief is because he knew about it?
The penalty won't help Jeff Burton, but NASCAR has decided to send a message via Robby that they won't tolerate this kind of thing, at least that's what they think we want to hear.
Your thoughts? Too harsh or not?
November 1, 2006 in NASCAR | Permalink
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Comments
I'm still trying to decide which is worse, Nascar's weekly bogus debris cautions, or RG's alleged debris caution? I'm tired of getting ripped off, if I wanted bogus entertainment I'd watch Wrestling. NASCAR sucks.
Posted by: MoparDave | Nov 7, 2006 9:07:14 AM
Very serious matter when a team tries to manipulate the outcome of a race...
Um, isn't that what all cheating is? Funny I didn't see the 48 or the 29 team lose points for trying to manipulate the outcome of the races they got caught cheating before.
Posted by: Flash | Nov 6, 2006 9:23:07 PM
Rassling or racing it was just a fur-n object.
Posted by: tbolt | Nov 6, 2006 12:53:20 PM
It's Robbie Gordon people, who really cares...GO 20!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Troy | Nov 5, 2006 11:28:02 PM
Robby got hit hard because he's Robby. Outspoken, no-BS, here it is , just deal. NASCAR cannot own him, tell him what to do/say/endorse and he pi$$ed off just about everyone in the garage at some point. Had Jeff Gordon thrown a body on the track no one camera would have picked it up but there still would have been a debris caution. Oh, Mikey Waltrip would also praise NASCAR for letting Jeff dispose of the remains on a NASCAR sanctioned event.
Posted by: fasteddie | Nov 5, 2006 8:12:52 PM
NASCAR admitted at least that it went against its own standard for penalties to set an example and next time it happens it will depend on which driver does it to what penalty they receive. NASCAR just keeps sinking deeper and deeper into the depths of crediblity.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 4, 2006 1:20:13 PM
Hey, even Jeff Burton said he doesn't blame
Robby for causing the caution (if indeed it can be proven that he did). NASCAR is just plain lame in the way that they enforce their so called "rules", dependent mostly on whom the perpetrator is perceived to be. I think that in this case, in order to be fair, a few things should be done. First, in order for NASCAR to retain what little credibility they have left, they should reveal to the public the evidence that they possess that proves Robby Gordon intentionally caused this caution. Second, if proven to be guilty, Robby's penalty should be equal to what other drivers have received in the recent past for intentionally causing a caution. And last, if NASCAR feels it needs to make a point and wants to levy a steeper penalty for such infractions, it should outline this at the next drivers meeting so that all of the owners, drivers and crew chiefs know what to expect if an incidence should occur.
Posted by: Ron | Nov 4, 2006 12:00:07 PM
Here's a novel idea: how about NASCAR actually making a rule regarding intentionally causing a caution and clearly spelling out the penalty for it? Then, drivers such as Robby can decide if it's worth the risk or not. Instead, NASCAR waits until something that they don't like has been done. Then, they decide how stiff the penalty will be, and they are routinely inconsistent with it - that's BS! There is absolutely no reason why Robby's penalty should have been any more harsh than Dale Jr.'s - or countless other drivers who have intentionally caused a caution. If NASCAR believes that the penalty isn't stiff enough, then they need to increase it. But, they need to make that stiffer penalty known BEFORE the infraction occurs. To do it afterwards is absurd. It would be akin to a referee in a football game arbitrarily deciding to penalize an offensive team 75 yards and 10 points because he didn't like the fact that the same lineman was called for holding 3 times in the same game.
Posted by: RH | Nov 4, 2006 9:46:40 AM
As I have said before, "negate the advantages" and it will stop. Nascar does not want to change the way debris cautions are run because ""they"" will also not be able to control the race by using it. Debris Caution means hold your position, single file restart, pits closed ( 1 lap penalty for entering pits for any reason).
Posted by: 328 | Nov 4, 2006 8:44:26 AM
Is it true that MK threw a water bottle out of his car?
What race and year if anybody can help out.
Thanks
Posted by: Woody | Nov 3, 2006 6:36:25 PM
Kurt, to suggest that Robby threw it because he wanted to screw his former team is crap. Robby wanted to start his own team and be his own boss. I think the type of person Robby is; he would prefer to make his own decisions on the team instead of having them made for him.
Posted by: Christopher | Nov 3, 2006 4:35:32 PM
The question no one asked is what was Robby Gordon's motive? Was he the potential "lucky dog"? Or was he just angry that he is no longer driving for Childress in the midst of their resurgence, so he stuck it to Burton?
Another thing I would like to know is why all of the debris cautions, when there has to be a twenty car pileup to bring out the caution if it's the last lap? NASCAR needs more consistency with the yellow flag.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Nov 3, 2006 2:56:53 PM
"Kudo's to the pit reporter who tracked Gordon down and asked the revenent questions." Posted by: bob - Nov 2, 2006.
I agree totally, And when confronted, Robby told his crew to unload the car now and lets look, and wouldn't you know it was time for another commercial.
One week Tony rags about unsafe conditions at restrictor plate tracks, and 7 days later he drives another car OFF the asphalt at 190+ mph, and he gets nada.
NASCAR and their 'so-called' rulebook needs to be infraction specific. No appeal process, and applied by an independant authority, with no interest in the outcome of events. This incident re-affirms my belief that the rulebook contains a chapter on "How can we Screw Robby Gordon this week".
I like the idea of closing pit road along with no lucky dog, for debris cautions.
I'd also like to see an Impala SS that doesn't look like a Monte Carlo SS, but thats another thread.
Posted by: Rex_Havoc | Nov 3, 2006 2:35:56 PM
Why not just make the window-net a little wider so the drivers wont be able throw anything out the car?
Posted by: Christopher | Nov 3, 2006 2:18:31 PM
You know RCR29, Robby probably did throw that debris, so he deserves to be punished for it, I get that. But why do you and practically everyone else have to give him such a hard time? It's not like he's the only driver to do this. He's just one of the few that have been caught. Big deal!! Was Junior criticized this much when he intentionally spun himself out at Bristol a few years ago? Putting himself and other drivers in far more danger than this simple debris that Robby threw. If you ask me, Junior should have been punished far worse than he was, because Bristol is a small track and drivers lap that track very quick and someone could have easily have hit him.
Robby has been critized for things that other drivers do on a regular basis, but just because a lot of NASCAR fans don't like him, they think he's bad for the sport. Racing his teammate back to the start/finish line; what's wrong with that. The guy wants to win for himself and his sponsors. If he didn't want to win, then he wouldn't be a racer.
I agree that manipulating the rules to your advantage is wrong. But every team does it. Either by "mysterious" debris cautions or illegal parts and/or adjustments to the racecar. But when drivers/teams get caught, they're all treated differently by the media, by the fans and it seems even by NASCAR, based on that drivers/teams popularity with the mentioned groups.
Posted by: Christopher | Nov 3, 2006 2:08:21 PM
why dont they use day glo orange padding then would know what it is, could also put diff stripes for each car then would know were it came from. nascar should insp under seat and in cars make sure nothing in cars just before drivers get in.
Posted by: joe | Nov 3, 2006 1:42:47 PM
Let's face it, all NASCAR teams are multi-million dollar organizations; what does a penalty of a few thousand dollars matter and loss of a few points matter?
Until NASCAR starts suspending drivers and teams for a race or two, none of these silly little penalties will get their attention.
Posted by: Wild Handyman | Nov 3, 2006 11:36:34 AM
"Let's say the tables were reversed and that it was Robby that through a fit about the debris caution, would Nascar have investigated Jeff Burton?"
CHARACTER, INTEGRITY, HISTORY...... can you comprehend those words Christopher? Marc... high five, you are dead on right, bs is bs, and it stinks.....
Posted by: RCR29 | Nov 3, 2006 10:50:24 AM
As an alternative, eliminate the 'charity lap', and you have also solved the problem.
Posted by: sal | Nov 3, 2006 6:21:53 AM
I also think the pits should not be open for debris cautions. And I don't think there should be a lucky dog for the debris caution. If you take the "GIFT" away from the debris cautions that would take care of this situation. Seems simple to me.
Posted by: joyce | Nov 2, 2006 9:42:28 PM
"It is a very serious matter when a team attempts to manipulate the outcome of a race."
Ah, but when NASCAR throws a bogus yellow to manipulate the outcome, that is just fine and dandy. Which was worse, the phantom yellow to help Jr. or the yellow for padding on the track? NASCAR should be embarrassed.
Posted by: Kevin | Nov 2, 2006 9:31:41 PM
MAC,
I would be justified if they had proof Gordon actually tossed it out the window. All they can do is assume that he did since it came out of the window. They were simply trying to make an example of Gordon, because they went against the previous fines and point deductions for a similar infraction.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 2, 2006 9:04:49 PM
The penalty for Robby Gordon by Nacar was justified, enuff said
Posted by: Mac | Nov 2, 2006 8:50:58 PM
Those BS cautions are called for one reason- to air the TV commercials. As far as debris being thrown by drivers, suspend the driver for the next race. A 15K fine is pocket change. It would be worth it to purposely throw debris every race if you could finish 10th. Roll bar material should be painted orange so it can be identified. The knuckleheads in the TV booth are afraid to say anything controversial. Kudo's to the pit reporter who tracked Gordon down and asked the revenent questions.
Posted by: bob | Nov 2, 2006 8:07:43 PM
Deborah,
Reed Sorenson got penalized during the race for their accusation, they saw it coming out of the window and assumed that he actually tossed it out. They didn't actually have it on video that he had it in his hand and he tossed out the window. Just liek they actually didn't have it on video that Robbie Gordon had the piece of foam in his hand and tossed it out the window. They caved into the pressure and that just shows they have zero credibility. Jeff Burton has no proof that Robbie Gordon tossed the foam out the window, he is just mad that the caution came out and it ruined his hopes of a long green flag fun that might allow him to make up the positions he lost.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 2, 2006 8:04:03 PM
They should simply erase Gordon from the results and not give him points nor the payout, and return his application for Texas and his fee. That's one fine and penalty that everyone's going to understand.
The second violation ends your season. Period.
Posted by: zorko | Nov 2, 2006 7:24:07 PM
Just another example of how nascar picks and chooses who they inforce rules on. What about the glove thrown out the window earlier this year causing a caution where nothing was done. You can't tell me that nascar didn't know who threw that out their window. Nascar's credibility just keeps going downhill.
Posted by: mike | Nov 2, 2006 7:06:14 PM
This is the sort of thing that is giving me some serious thoughts to turning my back on NASCAR. Nothing can be counted on to be in black and white. Hmmm...Mr. Websters dictionary clearly defines "inconclusive". I got a spare version here on the desk that I will gladly send NASCAR. Maybe the spokesman who pipes up and gives statements should maybe wait till he/she gets the ok on what is to be said...or not said...or what will be changed on Monday morning. Get on the same page guys...Mr. France, control your business in the manner and respect it deserves.
Posted by: Keith | Nov 2, 2006 7:00:15 PM
Wow. Yes, a harsh penalty, but I'm not all that upset about it. Disclosure: I'm a Burton fan AND a Robby Gordon fan. I do not like the idea that a driver can create a caution on purpose, thereby seriously affecting others in the race. Yes, Burton was 2 laps down, but he was picking off cars very quickly and had to pass only one more before he was one lap down and might later have been eligible for the dreaded pooch. Hey, I don't like the pooch, but it's there in the rules. That's when the yellow came out.
I also agree strongly with the contention that a good pair of binoculars could have told NASCAR what the "debris" was.
How about a rule that there be cautions - like that one - where the pits stay closed? Run one or two laps under yellow, pick up the "debris," and go racing again? Does every hot dog wrapper have to cause a 5-lap, 10-minute yellow with pit stops?
Posted by: Doug | Nov 2, 2006 6:29:02 PM
This past summer at the Pepsi 400, there was a tiny flat piece of rubber beach ball on the race track. They came and picked it up. Everyone was cheering. A little later on in the race, someone in the stands threw a water bottle onto the track and it landed right on the edge of the track near the grass. I notified security and nothing was done and that's where it stayed.
Posted by: Woody | Nov 2, 2006 6:26:02 PM
i think this was very serve their is alot of other thing going on. to much money
Posted by: MARTIN | Nov 2, 2006 6:19:48 PM
Some of these cautions are crazy. I doubt rollbar padding is going to puncture a tire. I'm sure you can tell the differnce between sheetmetal, chunks of steel, hotdog wrappers and rollbar padding.
Posted by: jeff | Nov 2, 2006 6:01:32 PM
Chris Daly,,,Great Point
Posted by: charles | Nov 2, 2006 5:57:12 PM
Nascar was quick on the triger to throw the caution.#1 The padding was off the racing surface,#2 They have their own spotters around the track,#3 A good pair of binoculars could tell it was padding,#4 You can bet Nascar and Nextel knew exactly where Jeff Burton was,#5 Cingular would ride Nextel like a Rented Mule if Burton wins the Cup,#6 If a medium budget,one car team (Gordon)wins in Cup ,it could shake the foundation of the sport,by proving 20 million per car and 4 cars per team, might be Milking the sponsors just a little. I could be wrong..
Posted by: charles | Nov 2, 2006 5:49:56 PM
Jeff Burton rode around Martinsville with his hood pin flapping and there was no black flag. NASCAR penalties are levied based on who you are and how much you kiss butt.
Posted by: Babs | Nov 2, 2006 5:40:01 PM
If things weren't done right last time, then this is the time to fix it. It would be kinda cool if they had a list of penalties for each infraction in print. They could change them when necessary, but not at the time of infraction.
I think anyone on probation for whatever reason should have to race there way in while serving their sentence. If your outside the top 35, then cash is a good penalty.
Posted by: StewartFan | Nov 2, 2006 5:29:24 PM
Nascar has so many cameras around the track every race weekend and you mean to tell that this is one of the only times they've figured out where the mysterious debris came from? Please. I really find that hard to believe. Let's say the tables were reversed and that it was Robby that through a fit about the debris caution, would Nascar have investigated Jeff Burton? After they said the video replay was inconclusive? I really doubt that.
Posted by: Christopher Daly | Nov 2, 2006 5:28:16 PM
Undoctored video replay??? What in the heck are you talking about?
Posted by: bill | Nov 2, 2006 3:48:59 PM
Marc,good point about they now have a standard penalty for throwing objects out of the car.Let's see if they do it again.I feel if this had been a "chaser" instead of Robby,it would be a non-issue.
This is the first time I can remember them making the crew chief responsible for the driver's behavior.
Posted by: Short Lady | Nov 2, 2006 3:34:14 PM
Somebody please tell me if i;m wrong. but didnt Reed Sorenson actually get caught last yr for throwing someting out the window..If i remember right they had it on video but nothing was done about him doing it....So please tell me whats the difference between Robby and Reed...Neither is my favorite but hey Nascar needs to quit showing favoritism....Its very obvious to me they dont care for Robby....
Posted by: Deborah | Nov 2, 2006 2:55:05 PM
Marc,
You are missing the point. The penatly should be the same for everyone for manipulating a caution. The impact to other participants in the race should have no bearing. Jeff Burton was two laps down because of his own circumstances. Robby Gordon didn't cause him to be two laps down.
Posted by: Michael | Nov 2, 2006 1:53:44 PM
Marc,
You are missing the point. The penatly should be the same for everyone for manipulating a caution. The impact to other participants in the race should have no bearing. Jeff Burton was two laps down because of his own circumstances. Robby Gordon didn't cause him to be two laps down.
Posted by: Michael | Nov 2, 2006 1:50:54 PM
A couple days ago Nascar said the video was inconclusive, and that all the padding on his car was present. What changed? Did they penalize previous drivers caught (with hard proof) for 'creating' debris with points and/or monetary fines? Is this just a good way to divert attention from the 2 previous 'debris' cautions throw in the same race that benefitted other drivers? Is Nextel secretly chuckling on the sidelines?
Posted by: SallyB | Nov 2, 2006 12:49:10 PM
"RGordon7Grl |
When NASCAR finally picks a standard for their penalties, it will be much easier to swollow. Not random penalties for their fav's and then others for who they "choose" to make examples of. Funny when Jr, spun he got far less of a fine/points taken."
You advocate a "standard" in penalties yet you use two entirely different and separate incidents to make some kind of point.
How do you equate a spin to an event that affected the entire 43 car field and that race's finishing order and in particular how the Chase participants finished?
A standard would require like infractions. But apparently now there is one set for tossing foreign material onto the track to reate a caution.
That said sending a monetary "signal" is meaningless. Most if not all the owners and drivers are millionaires. 10 or 20 grand is pocket change and the reality is the money is returned to all the drivers via the awards banquet.
The "signal" should have been the 50 owners/drivers points the "probation" PLUS either disqualification of the Atlanta results or the #7 given a 43rd place finish.
Both would have dropped him from the top 35 forced him to qual on time for the remaining events and the first five of 2007.
THAT is a "signal" not some BS fine no one cares about and not leaving the "official" Atlanta results stand as they are.
Posted by: Marc | Nov 2, 2006 9:19:21 AM
Tbfka#5,
We will never see any proof positive that Robbie tossed the foam out of the window, but I guess that really doesn't matter to NASCAR. Their credibility has been sliding down hill ever since Brian France took over and it is about at zero.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 2, 2006 7:05:14 AM
Kat, I'll file it under...Things that make you go Hmmmm?!...Can we the fans get to see the undoctored video replay? I 'spect not! Is Robbie Nascar's whipping boy?...Yes, Can a Cingular sponsored car win the Nextel Cup?...
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Nov 2, 2006 12:54:19 AM
It should have been more, not so much for what he gained from it, but what he may have caused Jeff B. to lose
Posted by: DonB | Nov 2, 2006 12:01:03 AM
When NASCAR finally picks a standard for their penalties, it will be much easier to swollow. Not random penalties for their fav's and then others for who they "choose" to make examples of. Funny when Jr, spun he got far less of a fine/points taken.
Posted by: RGordon7Grl | Nov 1, 2006 10:02:03 PM
He should have got more, but its a start. Hopefullt the message is sent.
Posted by: 4ever3 | Nov 1, 2006 9:06:06 PM
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