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April 20, 2008
NASCAR needs to say no to Mexico City until Safer Barriers are put in
First, congrats to Kyle Busch on a hard-charged win.
Now, on to the safer barrier thing...oops, I forgot there are no safer barriers in Mexico City. Why is this? All the other tracks that NASCAR races at had to put them in, some even coming under fire for not having them on the inside walls, but at least they have safer barriers on the outside walls.
Two red flags because of wrecks and to fix the walls, the concrete walls, with no safety features, at that. Luckily this was a road course and the speeds weren't higher.
I think NASCAR needs to say, "You want us to race there, put in the safer barriers," if they choose not to, for whatever reason, say "adios" to the Mexico City race.
Your thoughts?
April 20, 2008 in NASCAR Nationwide Series | Permalink
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Kathy,
I agree with you, NASCAR demanded that all tracks that have NASCAR sanctioned races must install SAFER barriers, so it stands to reason that they make the same demand of Mexico City or they say adidos to Mexico.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 20, 2008 7:39:35 PM
Safer barriers or not I say adidos mexico!
Lets say the hell with south of the border.
lets have another race up here. I don't see the big hype.And whats the hype over open wheel guys......
Posted by: gil | Apr 20, 2008 7:46:03 PM
Thanks Kathy.....
Posted on the last one...
Safety at the track, barriers, track and power..
"Okay Carlos I am off this weekend and wathcing the race 2 questions for you , since this race is so "needed:
1) WTF do my boys have to come to a Raod Course in Mexico and race when there are no SAFE BARRIERS???????
2)Why cant the track power stay on? Hell it went off.
Give a comprable facility to me and I might be okay with it..
See nothing above dealt with racisim. it dealt with saftey and the damn race track...
Gimme a lesson here.. Waiting?
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 20, 2008 3:40:13 PM
"
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 20, 2008 8:08:13 PM
Congrats again to Kyle and the Team........
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 20, 2008 8:09:28 PM
If the point of this event is to expand the international appeal of NASCAR, I don't think a messy road course race like this gets the job done.
I just use the thinking "If I wanted to get a friend hooked on NASCAR after watching just one race, what race would I show them?". I think the last thing I would do is make them sit through a road course race like we saw today.
But NASCAR apparently thinks Canadian and Mexican fans will get hooked on NASCAR with racing like we see at Montreal, Mexico City, Watkins Glen, or Infineon. I have to disagree with this approach since road racing is such a small percentage of what NASCAR is, and in my opinion is the least pleasing form of NASCAR racing to the eye.
To me the solution is an international Sprint Cup points race on an oval. If you want to expose international fans to NASCAR you should present a product that represents what NASCAR is about 95% of the time: ALL of the sport's superstars - Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr., Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart, etc. - racing side-by-side, nose-to-tail on an oval.
In my opinion trying to sell NASCAR internationally by giving international fans a lower-tiered series road race with a couple race-winning Cup drivers in Busch, Edwards, and Bowyer and a bunch of non-NASCAR drivers like Pruett, Fernandez, Jourdain, Simo, Pardo, and Papis just doesn't make sense.
Again, if NASCAR trying to market an international "Look, this is what NASCAR is all about" compaign, I don't know why they're doing it in a matter that does not accurately represent what NASCAR really is all about 95% of the time.
In my opinion, in 2009 the most effective way to use the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez to get Mexican fans hooked on NASCAR would be to wait one more week on the calendar, pack the fans into the stands, and let them watch the Talladega Cup race on the "jumbotron".
I love the idea of expanding NASCAR internationally. I think it would great to create die-hard fan bases in Mexico, Canada, Japan, Europe, and everywhere else across the world. If NASCAR's going to do it though they need to do it the right way, and in my mind that is by having a Cup points race on an oval, because THAT is what NASCAR is all about.
The NFL, NHL, and Major League Baseball eventually realized international fans aren't going to buy "junk" just because it has their name on it. That's why those leagues stopped with the international exhibition games filled with scrub players and an occasional star or two who cared nothing about winning or losing and replaced them with real, standings-counting games that forced all the superstars to come out and play with 100% effort.
NASCAR could take a lesson from the other sports leagues and stop feeding the international fans "junk" like they got from this lower-tiered series road race today and will get again in Montreal in August. Give them a real Sprint Cup points race if you are truly trying to sell them your sport.
Posted by: stricklinfan82 | Apr 20, 2008 8:30:52 PM
I left out one line at the end of my last post:
Give them a real Sprint Cup points race if you are truly trying to sell them your sport. And put that race on an OVAL.
Posted by: stricklinfan82 | Apr 20, 2008 8:35:13 PM
My thoughts Kathy?
My thoughts are that this being the FOURTH event held at this track and all of a sudden this is an issue with you there may be something else at work here.
Pffft!
stricklinfan - "Give them a real Sprint Cup points race if you are truly trying to sell them your sport. And put that race on an OVAL."
Sure, why not, make to happen.
At the Rock.
No, not THAT one. This one (http://www.rockingham.co.uk/)
It would be worth it just to see all the panties that got in a wad over it.
Posted by: marc | Apr 20, 2008 9:20:21 PM
Marc,
If I am misunderstnading your first part, sorry.. if not( which I doubt I am)
WTF,
how many Red flags are needed to repair a cheap wall, , no barriers with any safety???
Gimme a break. Poole needs you
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 20, 2008 9:24:14 PM
Typical marc response, argumentative just for the sake of arguement and sticking up for NASCAR.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 20, 2008 9:34:59 PM
Jon,
I thought I read that right...
IMO he idolizes the asses that run this sport..
Too funny Brian "couldnt"make the trip there..LMFAO>>>
Hopefully someone with a clue gets the "real" end of "why he couldnt>....
4 Races in Mexico, 4 mistakes..
BUT, BUt BUT congrats to Kyle for handing the ass Scott P his rear on a plate on a road course..
Great day for Bowyer, great day for Wimmer. Shitty day for the 33 Come on Kevin and D:)
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 20, 2008 9:49:27 PM
What time did the race end?...I got home a 5:30 and no race or results on the net...
Off the subject folks and to ALL responsible pet owners PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD KEEP YOUR PETS UNDER CONTROL
Tonight for the first time in 32 years of driving I struck and killed somebodies stray dog, I've hit Deer, racoons, squirrls, cats, oppossum and birds...But never a dog...I feel aboslutely horrible about it, apparently it had been hanging around this area of Lincolnton for a few days according to these people who where trying to coax it over to there yard...in front of their children no less...to say the least their timing was so wrong! and I can say she didn't suffer...The gentleman said he didn't expect the dog to dart out of the ditch like it did...sad just sad
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 20, 2008 10:11:14 PM
Wow Kurt2, those are pretty harsh words for Scott P. and I don't doubt your opinion of him since you obviously know him, but from what I have seen of him he doesn't come across like an ass.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 20, 2008 10:22:02 PM
Fan#5
What time did the race end?
It's sad about the dog and I know you feel
terrible but don't be to hard on yourself,
it wasn't your fault, it was an accident
and no fault of your's. I love dogs and I
have a Golden Retriever but I don't let
her out of my sight. What happened to you
could happen to any of us and I just wish
(some)people would take control of their
pets. I feel bad just knowing it happened.
Congrats to Kyle Busch on his win in
Mexico.
Congrats to Danica Patrick on her IndyCar
win.
Kathy
Good post, I agree with you on safer
barriers in Mexico.
Posted by: Race Fan | Apr 20, 2008 11:17:39 PM
Fan#5 I know how you feel about the dog. Its a horrible feeling, people living that close to the road need to keep their animals in a fence. I hit a goat last year on my way to pickup my son at night. Put flat spots in the tires and broke the air lift suspension. Not a pretty sight watching a goat slide up the hood of hubby's car. On a good note the goat walked away and left his slobber and snot allover the windshield. Still got the hoof marks across the hood.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 21, 2008 12:13:35 AM
Kathy
say "adios" to the Mexico City race.
no kidding so many empty seats, bring these races to the mid west like MN or WI
is elkhardt lake too old for these cars??
kyb nice race and tune up race for ca and the glen
Posted by: aggie | Apr 21, 2008 12:20:00 AM
Its as simple as this:
If you want NASCAR teams to spend a ton of cash on a NATIONWIDE race,and travel that far,with crossing borders and all that other crap that comes along with the hassle of leaving the country,you damn well better make sure the drivers are protected as well as they are in the good 'ol U.S.A.
Because the thought of all that hassle just so a driver will get less protection on the track pisses me off...and that has nothing to do with the place the race was in,it has to do with the conditions of the track,period.
Posted by: EARNHARDT NATION | Apr 21, 2008 12:37:14 AM
Also,
Congrats to DANICA PATRICK...sorry to sound like a red blooded american,but she's hot as hell,and very talented...I wish she would come to NASCAR...I love my boy JUNIOR to death,but DANICA would make a much better poster to look at :) oh yeah!!
Posted by: EARNHARDT NATION | Apr 21, 2008 12:48:40 AM
Jon - "Typical marc response, argumentative just for the sake of arguement and sticking up for NASCAR."
Truth be told your response is very typical of you. Off target.
What in my single comment came close to "sticking up" for NASCAR?
Was it in saying how great it was that NASCAR runs at a track without SAFER Barriers? Couldn't have been, never said it.
Was it in saying how wrong Kathy was in stating NASCAR shouldn't run there? Nope, can't be that, never said it.
So, just what was it Jon, what did you read that made you come to such a false conclusion?
Posted by: marc | Apr 21, 2008 3:17:51 AM
kurt2 - "Gimme a break. Poole needs you"
Which puts me squarely one ahead of you.
Posted by: marc | Apr 21, 2008 3:21:48 AM
Well, it is on to 'Dega and hopefully Jr. first win in the #88 or at least another Top 5 or 10. As long as he continues to finish Top 10's he will be back in Chase and since NASCAR doesn't seem to plan on ever getting rid of it we can wishing it would go away. Just maybe the Gordon fans will finally stop saying "If it was the old way Jeffy would have won 5 or 6 championships already" yeah I know, I am stirring the pot, but someone has to it after that boring race on Sunday.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 21, 2008 6:56:41 AM
aggie THATS why I left Minnesota for yyears and years talks of a track circulatred and when i asked and insider i was told it was a "Paper" track...it would only exist on paper...so if the sport wouldn't come to me I would come to NC
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 21, 2008 7:44:27 AM
What NASCAR didn't show during their fluttery mariachi ladden intro to the Mexico race, was you needed armed guards to go anywhere in the area of Mexico City after dark. Those people cannot afford the paper the race tickets printed on much less any of the offical NASCAR crap! Stay the hell outta there.
Posted by: Rich | Apr 21, 2008 8:26:55 AM
Thanks all for the words of encouragement...Hug your pups today!
Posted by: Fan#5 | Apr 21, 2008 8:41:40 AM
Rich -
Really?
Then how do you explain the est, 60-65 thousand people in the stands got in there?
Or the est 40-45 thousand that attended the A1GP event at the same track in March?
Were they guests of the local government Rich?
Posted by: marc | Apr 21, 2008 9:24:10 AM
F5
a road course race up in WI would be the way to do it up here......i dont know the attendeance numbers but there were lots of empty seats and yeah i know the demo of teh city BUT 25 million people and you cant fill a race........ GET OUT ASAP
f5, Chance my golden R says you'll be ok and things happen in life.
Posted by: aggie | Apr 21, 2008 9:38:04 AM
It may be an issue, now, because there were so many complaining about Vegas not having the safer barriers on the INSIDE wall. What would those people say if we had a track, here in the US, without safer barriers at all? Infineon and Watkins Glenn use safer walls, why shouldn't they?
Road courses need safer walls, in certain places. I don't think that they need them all the way around the track. But, they either need the safer barriers or they need the foam wall, to protect the drivers.
Posted by: dave | Apr 21, 2008 9:49:26 AM
My thoughts are that this being the FOURTH event held at this track and all of a sudden this is an issue with you there may be something else at work here.
No Marc, nothing else at work here. I don't claim to be a know-it-all and did not know that there were no safer barriers at the track. I figured since NASCAR required all of our tracks here to have them, that Mexico City would have installed them at some time since NASCAR runs there. Now that I know they don't have them, my guess would be that the Montreal track doesn't have them either, but I could be wrong.
Posted by: Kathy | Apr 21, 2008 9:50:35 AM
I see we have another FS in our midst. Oh well, no biggie. I wouldn't worry about a battle of wits here, the other side seems to be unarmed ;-)
On subject, I agree totally about the safety barriers at the track. The drivers should be afforded all the saftey equiptment (on and off the track) just as if they were in the US.
Congrats to Danica!! Glad she finally won one!!
Now on to Dega and let's hope it's not a snoozer AGAIN!
See yaaaa........
Rich (and others) I agree with you also. I don't think there should be a race in Mexico at all if they want to keep the cost to the teams down. Maybe there is some monetary kick-back to NASCAR for going there, who knows, just speculation on my part. Regardless, there are so many more tracks they could go to here in the US that would cost the teams so much less and would probably generate more revenue for NASCAR.
Posted by: Radster | Apr 21, 2008 9:52:36 AM
{{{Fan#5}}} Don't blame yourself, it wasn't your fault. I know you feel bad, as most would, but it was a stray and the people were coaxing it to cross the street, nothing you could have done that would have changed the outcome.
Posted by: Kathy | Apr 21, 2008 10:07:31 AM
I thought NASCAR mandated that anywhere they race, SAFER barriers had to be installed.... my mistake there. Were any of the 3 previous races in MC black flagged for "wall repair"? If not, maybe THAT's why Kathy, myself, and many others never noticed they didn't have any until Sunday. When did the teams leave for MC? Straight from Phoenix Saturday night? I saw it is a 7500 mile trek. I think DP referred to it as a logistical nightmare.
Yes, radster, there is a new FS in the bunch, but THIS stick is much bigger than our trusty ole usual FS. We've graduated to the need of a much larger FS.
Hey let's go to England and race! London currently smells of raw manure per CNN, so lets go!! $hit+ high octane racing fuel= like the old days in the old south on the old tracks surrounded by farmland. Smells much better than MC I bet.
On a side note. look at eastseries.com and check out driver #8. There's a reason she kept that number, I can feel it. Kept it in the family business, for the family.
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 21, 2008 10:15:23 AM
Kat,missed most of the race while playing ball in Virginia...Saw the end as well as the Said deal.Didn't get in untill 0230.Very sore from 7 games......
You have a valid point regardless of how HE wants to make into something different.As stated many times and Strick is on it...going to other countries is a waste of money doing it on a road course makes it even worse IMO.The drivers and teams should just boycott it for several reasons and the safer barrier being the main focal point of that boycott.I'm sure Nascrap powers that be would find a way to MAKE them race though.......
Wow...missed some posts from the last topic.I might have been the one that got the JPM thng going,not sure..But it had nothing to do with what Mr.J2 turned it into.Typical.....
F5,rough deal there bro.I'm a softy when it comes to hitting any animal,rodent whatever.I have actually buried a cat and a dog I have hit after feeling so bad....It's ok and not your fault.......
Kyle congrats.Wimmer as well.A week off and Dega is hear.Let's hope we have some good racing.Ya'll have a nice week.........
Posted by: DJ | Apr 21, 2008 10:27:28 AM
Kathy - Good post. Safer barriers or no race.
F5 - Sorry about the dog but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control.
Stricklandfan - You hit the nail on the head. Can you imagine the fans it would bring to NASCAR if they held a Cup race on an oval like Bristol in Mexico, Canada or any foreign country?
Graceann - Was it aggie's goat that you hit with your hubby's car? :)
Gretch - I much prefer the first FS to the new one.
Congrats to Kyle Busch. Is there any driver out there right now who is better than he is?
Congrats also to Danica. Even though it was a fuel mileage win, isn't that how JJ won his last race?
Posted by: Diane | Apr 21, 2008 10:55:09 AM
There were a couple of comments about Rusty's commentary, from the last subject. He seems to have a conflict of interest, since he owns two Nationwide racecars (even though he's not as bad as DW touting Mikey's cars and Toyota).
But, Rusty said that the straightaway at Pocoono is the longest (he might have said I think it's the longest), on the $print Cup circuit. Isn't Talladega's backstretch longer than the one at Pocono? I won't count the frontstretch, because of the "dog-leg." I think of the backstretch as more of a "true" straightaway.
Posted by: dave | Apr 21, 2008 11:48:50 AM
Pretty comical when the(a) spokesperson for Office Depot Carl Edward visited the store in Mexico City and the employees who didn't recognize who he was chased him and the camera crew out.
A win is a win, and congrats to Danica for her first and in the history of Indy style racing.
I enjoy the road courses and wish they had more of 'em in CUP. Was surprised Juan Montoya didn't race in this one. Pretty exciting race and Kyle's win was very impressive.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 21, 2008 12:24:11 PM
Kat,
I think they need to say no to Mexico period! Actually, the linked concrete did the same as a safer barrier. It shifted (a lot) with the impact and absorbed a lot of the energy. Remember, safer barriers aren't all that soft to hit either. A real major improvement, for this track, would be using shredded tire mulch for the wash out areas instead of dirt.
As for the race, next year I'll know to record it and watch the last 30.
Posted by: Keith | Apr 21, 2008 1:23:33 PM
Jone2 - Nice post. Did you notice that UPS is standing by to sign on as Cousin Carl's sponsor if Office Depot leaves him? If that happens, I will go with FedX even though I don't like Denny. Or maybe I'll just use the U.S. Postal Service.
dave - Several web sites say that Pocono has the longest straightaway.
K2 - I saw some signs of maturity in Kyle Busch yesterday. I may become a true fan.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 21, 2008 1:25:33 PM
The Autodromo does have soft walls a certain locations, not all over the track like an oval. The road courses on the Cup schedule are the same. If you were watching when a car did hit the concrete barriers on the corners at the Autodromo, they had give. It's designed that way and thus the time to move them back into place.
The Autodromo is a world class track. There's no need to discredit it because you don't think Nascar should be racing road courses or in Mexico.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 21, 2008 1:55:55 PM
Michael,
Ok you addressed the wall thing in your opinion..
Can you please tell me why they cant keep the power on???????? Or is that something else we get wrong?
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 21, 2008 2:01:16 PM
Kurt2,
I addressed the walls with the facts. This is a quote from the inventer of the SAFER barrier.
"I can't sit here right now and tell you that I can think of any place (on the road courses) where the SAFER barriers would be appropriate.
As far as the power, no I can't address that, I don't work for the power company or the race facility. I do work in commercial construction, so I have had it happened to me before. So has the entire City of New York on several occassions.
I don't remember anyone calling for any of the tracks that have had delays with water seeping up from under the track to be closed and taken off of the schedule.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 21, 2008 2:12:58 PM
Diane,
Carl's having a great year. Not my fav driver but he's giving Roush Fenway something to holler about.
UPS's got big bucks for sponsoring. Didn't know UPS was gonna leave Mikey's bunch, but according to you guess it's going to happen either with Carl or someone else. These big sponsors want results.
Other,
Power goes out frequently for a short time in my neck of the woods in NC when a storm occurs or high winds. That's why almost 25% of the homes on my road have those auxiliary power systems just in case.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 21, 2008 3:38:09 PM
Below is info. that was on Jayski.com:
"Office Depot negotiating with Roush; if not UPS could replace: Office Depot is in the midst of an exclusive 60-day negotiating period to extend its sponsorship of Carl Edwards’ #99 Ford, but industry sources say that UPS is waiting in the wings to make a run at the hot Roush Fenway Racing driver."
Posted by: Diane | Apr 21, 2008 4:06:51 PM
Thanks Diane for adding the UPS and Carl thing on there..;)
Micheal. Yep power does go out, but may I ask you a ological ? , have you ever been to the "lovely track in Mexico"?
Its not the most pleasant enviroment to hold a race for Power, walls, and security period...
To anwser you yes I have and regret the money all TEAMS spend for the race.. Its just a joy to be carted around like "animals" with armed guards with you when you leave the place, much less enter..
Sorry, its not racial at all but I prefer to drive anywhere , eat anywhere and not have to be told where is "safe" to go..
That gets a tad tiring and FYI the Armed ones arent free at all.. Nor can you trust them period.. Been freaking there and know it..
Sorry it is a waste of team resources and money to go down there.
The track is what it is but the "lay of the land "sucks period..
Its not NASCAR's fault theya re greedy as hell.. Thats what it boils down to..
AS a FYI, the Glen and Infenion are a hell of alot safer courses than Mexico..
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 21, 2008 4:53:09 PM
Kurt2,
Nope, never been to the race in Mexico. Yes, I know you work for an un-named team so I'm not surprised you've been there. Nor am I shocked to hear that teams that go there may not enjoy going there or like the added security or lack of, whichever it may be at the time.
My two cents on it is this, the Mexican government (who in a round about way on the track) want to do everything they can do to look good by putting on this event and show casing Mexico. So, I'm guessing they try and do everything they can to protect the participants and spend the resources they have available to put on the best race they can. The last thing they want is bad press on something happening to a Nascar affiliated person.
It's no great secret that Mexico City may not be the safest place in the world. New Orlean's, Detroit, New York City,etc. aren't either. We can discuss the politics, economics, and government of Mexico, but it won't change any of that.
I say, Mexico City probably does a good job in hosting the race and the participants. Don't blame them. P.S. you've been probaly doing this a while, not every race track on the Nascar circuit was a "garage mahal" either. It took time and money.
Owners, drivers, and teams don't like going to Mexico? They should take it up with Nascar. Sue Nascar, form unions...do something besides complain to the media. Clearly, everyone who particpates in Nascar is too scared to bight the hand that feeds them. Until that changes, all I can say is hate it for you. Get out if you don't like it.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 21, 2008 5:11:47 PM
Get out if you don't like it.
Posted by: Michael
mexico is just another third world country.
a zillion of their people walk hundreds of miles to get into the u.s. and out of that shitholla.
Posted by: exile | Apr 22, 2008 12:38:24 AM
p.s.
don't drink the water.
Posted by: exile | Apr 22, 2008 12:40:03 AM
Exile,
I was referring to people in Nascar who complain about not liking what Nascar does, but not doing anything about it.
Clearly Mexico is not as developed a nation as Canada and the United States, but Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, and Toyota don't just sell their cars to Americans. Thus, I am sure they are more than happy to be racing in Mexico, along with a lot of the other sponsors.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 22, 2008 8:57:23 AM
Noone else talk to him. You're NOT going to get the last word. Agree to Disagree. Even FS ignores us at some point and refuses to carry on with our crazy a$$es. THIS guy will NOT ignore us. He will continue to patronize us with his rhetoric until we all have aneurisms. He is obviously one of the Presidential candidates as none of them will be quiet.
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 22, 2008 9:47:32 AM
Micheal,
So if we dont like it get out? or change it..LMAO
If my last name were France I could change it or Smith I still would be okay...
You cant change NASCAR when you work under there "umbrella"..
But thanks for the advice..We al will keep that under advisment next time we dont like anything in any job we have.. We can "{just get out"..WOW
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 22, 2008 10:25:06 AM
Mexico is like a third-world nation. But many of our American cars are made or built in Mexico by Mexicans including Fords and Chevys. Now our former auto workers are on unemployment, welfare and food stamps. And our auto company CEOs and big shots are making millions of dollars. What a shame.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 22, 2008 10:39:02 AM
There's very few jobs completely outsource proof anymore. Even some health groups are sending patients overseas for major surgeries for a quarter of the cost that it would be in the US even paying for the airfare and resident accomodations while there.
Now on the positive side, Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota are opening up vehicle factories but those are primarily in the South like Mississippi & Texas, except for Honda which is in the process of opening up a plant in Greensburg Indiana. Diane, has anyone you know applied for a job there and got on?
In my area of NC Honda is building their bizjet factory as well as the engine plant. This'll be a big boost. Average wage'll be in the 60s which is great money for this area.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 22, 2008 1:17:33 PM
Drum Roll..................another moment of me "agreeing" with j2.
Foreign Auto makers are building factories and supplying jobs to Americans- IN THE USA- while "our" automakers are hauling a$$ to Brazil- Ford Motor Company- and Mexico City- and whereever else. WTF?
I now have 2 foreign made vehicles at home, averaging 35 to 40 mpg. Both have Japenese stickers on them But WTH, I am driving by the damn gas station a lot more often than my friends who have to fill up every 3 to 4 days.
Posted by: Gretchen | Apr 22, 2008 2:47:26 PM
Diane
Mexico is like a third-world nation.
Good post and I agree.
Posted by: Race Fan | Apr 22, 2008 2:47:26 PM
Jon2 - Graceann probably can give you details about the Toyota factories they have in Kentucky. Toyota also has plants in southern Indiana where they make the Tundra, an SUV and a mini-van. Toyota has plants in 13 North American locations with more than 30,000 employees and they produce over 1.5 million vehicles a year. This info is from a Dec. 2006 article.
That Honda plant in Greensburg, Indiana was supposed to have been built in Rushville which is just 13 miles from me and is also the town where Tony Stewart lived for a few years and started his racing career at the County Fairgrounds.
Because the state wouldn't change the 2-lane highway to 4 lanes, Honda decided to build in Greensburg which is located just off I-74 about 18 miles south of Rushville.
This is probably more info than you or anyone else wants. But I found it interesting that Ford and GM have closed plants in Indiana while Toyota and Honda are building new ones.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 22, 2008 2:54:33 PM
Gretchen - I'm still driving a Ford but I down-sized from a 1998 Thunderbird (19 mpg) to a 2007 Focus that gets 32 mpg. Because I have family members who were Ford employees, I got a discount of about 2K off the price of my Focus.
I use to look down on friends who drove foreign cars. But not anymore.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 22, 2008 3:04:20 PM
Hell, I drive 35 miles one way to work each day. I fill up on Sunday, drive there and back all week long, and still have right at 1/4 tank on Saturday morning. I drive all over town all weekend and still have gas on Sunday pm when it's time to fill up.
And i've got my 88 tag displayed proudly on my foreign car...LMAO!!!!
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 22, 2008 4:27:00 PM
I really don't care if Toyota, Honda or any other foreign car maker assembles cars here I would never buy a piece of crap foreign car. They don't offer anything I cannot buy from a US car maker
Posted by: Jon | Apr 22, 2008 9:14:24 PM
Hey guys, Yea I can fill you in on the Toyota plant. Sore subject, hubby works for Ford. Builds the big diesels not much work here lately we've been seeing more lay-offs than workdays. We knew it was coming and prepared, sold a lot of toys we really didn't need and started watching every penny so we could handle this for how ever long it lasts. So far it been going on 2 years, I might have to put him on a corner with a sign "will work for food". Nah just kidding, we will be ok. I really can't blame it all on Toyota, the designs at Ford have been lacking for a while now and the big wigs have really done a good job of running the company in the ground. One thing I can tell you though if you happen to get hurt at Toyota plants and go on extended sick leave, most likely there will be no job when you come back and no benefits to help in your recovery. There were a couple of employees that lost their jobs when they found a memo and sent it around that stated the pay scale of the employees was cutting into the company's profits so there was going to be some cuts along the way. This was told to me by an employee at the Georgetown plant. So take it for what it is worth. Could be complete pile of pooh.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 22, 2008 10:24:54 PM
The outsourcing has been happening for a long time little by little. I worked in a factory about 11 years ago welding refrig. shelves for G.E. we lost our jobs and the plant shut down and relocated to Mexico. At that time we made about 9-10 bucks an hour, they got cheaper labor there and G.E. hauled ass.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 22, 2008 10:29:31 PM
Graceann,
That is exactly how the foreign car companies have an advantage over our car makers, they don't have to follow the same rules as long as they follow the law.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 22, 2008 11:03:56 PM
Not only that, Jon. 42% to 60% of the money paid by the car dealer to the manufacturer goes out of the country to the foreign manufacturers. While they are assembled here and some parts are made here, most of the money goes out of the USA, reducing the value of the dollar, and causing our prices (including gasoline) to go way up.
My former son-in-law is a mechanic who works at a salvage yard where wrecked cars are stripped of their usable parts. He recently told me that GM has really stepped up their suspension systems in the Chevrolet models to compete with foreign manufacturers. Unfortunately it's probably too little too late. If you don't give consumers what they want they will find car manufacturers that do.
Posted by: Barb G | Apr 23, 2008 12:03:41 AM
I'm probably not qualified enough to be giving a valid opinion on all the manufactuers,BUT...
I generally like CHEVY...JUNIOR has a little to do with that,yes...but even so,I will say that all the talk about a "foreign" manufacturer applies to all of em...I can't give you a bunch of stats on this subject like a lot of people have on here,but we all know that virtually no product in the U.S.A. Is made entirely here in the states,especially vehicles,and the ones that may be made here are still helped in the process by a foreigner some how some way....hell,hate to bring it up,but even HARLEY DAVIDSON don't have all their parts made and assembled here in our country...its almost like rooting for the "one who has the least amount of foreign handling of parts involved"...
If I'm wrong in this statement please educate me on it,because I'd like to know if I'm wrong in saying those things...
My point is: what's the definition of an 'AMERICAN' vehicle anymore?
Posted by: EARNHARDT NATION | Apr 23, 2008 3:23:52 AM
EN,
If the company is American, no matter where some of the parts are made or assembled elsewhere it is American. Just because Toyota and Honda are trying to save money on shipping entire vehicles here that are sold here doesn't in any way make them American made or an American car.
The notion that foreign cars are higher quality may have been a true statement years ago, but it is far from the truth today. The Big 3 USA auto makers have put a lot of design efforts into changing that idea.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 23, 2008 7:53:23 AM
I agree with what you guys have said, and yes I do believe the big 3 are trying to step things up. The only thing is have they waited to long? Ford has cut so many jobs trying to save themselves the ones left are like deer caught in headlights. The looks on their faces is unreal. We have 2 plants here LAP where the explorer is built and KTP where the 250 & up trucks are built. LAP looks like a sitting duck, KTP looked pretty safe until diesel went way past gas. The ones that stayed and didn't take the buy-outs (like us) were in between on years, we have 15 years invested there. His age is a factor with recent back surgery on his record and kids with pre-existing medical claims, we didn't have a choice but to stay and pray for the best. Luckily for us we have always had the good sense to stay well within our means and drive older cars, we bought our house before he went to Ford so we never got out of our comfort zone. Good thing we are older coots. (early 40's) Not real old.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 23, 2008 8:31:05 AM
Ganne
i hear and feel for many in inudustries down there and here.........the ford deal all started with that idiot j nazzzzir and the firestone fiascal, then came the ford kid to run things, another mistake, couple that with some of their products and ?????well you know the rest
on the car wars subject, and gas wars i will say this at 5-6$ a gallon it will chnage the usa's lifetsyle and auto usuage!! has too.
cars well as some said above about advantages. up here the car makers set up shop due to our socilaized medicare so they save an easy 3500 a year per employee
the health benefits has been the costliest part of building a vehcile in the usa for ages
another thing about about cars and the markets its almost like back room deals in some segments
my kid wanted a coupe 2 door/non hatch back.....
from the big 3 u have sunfire and cavalier thats it, mustang was too big and useless.........toy nada, mazda nada nissan, vw, ect only HONDA and GM have a 2 door small coupe?? we had a sunfire/cav already, so we end up with a vw golf gti as i got tired of looking for a civic back in 06 as the new civic wasnt out yet and civic's have unreal resale value
consumers are shopping one thing mnay times and just end up with a different product
going back to the race card and sports
ever look at the ufc?? all white guys semi lol normal looking not steroid junkies like the wwe...... fan demo 18-35 male and lots fo females
then boxing old guys lol like me 35-70 with black and hispanic fighters mostly dominate the classes and few female fans
the whole ufc thing i just dont get 2 white guys ontop of another for what 15 minutes and then some says i give up??
the only good thing about the ufc is u dont need to have a 50-0 record which u got fighting nobodys
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 9:38:15 AM
ganne
personally i hate driving/riding behind any vechile that i cant see thru
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 10:21:35 AM
Aggie, you sound like my hubby. He cannot stand to be behind something he can't see through either. It drives him mad. I swear he has road rage from driving so far to work and back, now I only drive 1 mile to and from work daily. Don't get out of my small town until the week-end when its time to go get groceries. I almost forget what its like to get in traffic.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 23, 2008 11:40:11 AM
The sad part is it's not the fault of the employees that Ford didn't keep up with the trend, GA. Yet it's the employees who suffer. It's freakin scary.
Posted by: Barb G | Apr 23, 2008 1:01:31 PM
Your right Barb. We have said for yours that they needed to change the look of the vehicles. You couldn't tell the difference between the trucks, explorers, expeditions or vans coming at you until they passed. The only sports car they offer is the Mustang, and for people like me who don't want to drive a tank of a car (crown vic) the Mustang is a hassle to deal with ( to low to the ground) I would really love to buy a Dodge Charger, but I would get run off from home. LOL
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 23, 2008 1:17:37 PM
I feel for anyone who works for the "The Big 3"...But THEY did it to themselves by the "Bigger is Better" mentality, Toyota and Honda stuck to their "Bread n' Butter" of quality efficient cars...go back to the Gas crisis of '73...The Government stepped in and formed "C.A.F.E" standards...Corporate Average Fuel Economy...BUT the Big 4 make more money with the bigger vechicles and "Lobbyist" called for the end of CAFE because they couldn't meet the standards...B as in B, S as in S...it all boils down to $$$$...I still drive my '84 Trans-Am with 179,000 and may drop a crate motor with RCR dressings when I hit 200,000!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 23, 2008 1:49:52 PM
Have an Uncle who participated in the Pacific rim war in WWII and another one later in Korea. Another one was a POW in the European part of WWII. The Pacific Uncle frowned on Japanese cars and would lecture anyone who bought one about the horrors he witnessed defending our country from that lot. In the 80's we showed up at Pacific War Uncle's residence with my new 1986 Isuzu Trooper, giddy as heck about it, and after one of his lectures we decided to sell it shortly thereafter. The POW Uncle likewise with anyone especially in our family who owned or contemplated buying a German made auto.
So I and mine pretty much stuck with the local mfged autos out of respect for my kin folk and more so wanting to keep our boys here at home employed. Sort of old fashioned perhaps in my thinking, but I've always liked to keep the money I spend here in the States as much as I can, which is getting more difficult by the day.
Not judging anyone who buys a foreign made car, it's a free will thing in my mind, but we've always had GM and Ford cars that did us well and on those grounds that's where I've sorta established our loyalty.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 23, 2008 2:17:52 PM
F5,
You see where Andy S. boy got the win taken away? for a freaking shock absorber....Humm intresting....
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 23, 2008 2:45:15 PM
f5
'84 Trans-Am with 179,000 and may drop a crate motor with RCR dressings when I hit 200,000!
is that smokey and bandit or night rider era lol
if its an rcr motor make sure its not a
dei rcr motor LOL
f5 your like me quite the gas economist
atleast u cna parts for the tam anywhere and fic it in the parking out with toll from walmart
yeah kid gti under warranty is still unreal its like i ve reconditioned the car under warranty buddy 80kms on matris swett f -all in 2 years....the germans have fallen back lots, bmw is hot $$$ wise mb sucks sinc the dodge bull shit and ??
i still think an 85 cultass supreme 2 door 305 rear drive is teh perfect car to me or a 79-81 9ci malibu cop car
up here for cabs they run prius and wow 360k or 240 miles and they are still tight
these guys used to buy crown vic ex cop cars 2-3000$ ect but some did the math and a prius or 28k cmamry is better in the long run
were close to 5.50 a gallon or 4.4 x 125 litres..... u guys are 3.7 litres to a us gal x 125 a litre to the us galoon up here in ND its 3.00 gallon still about 25% less when u factor in evrything.......
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 2:59:52 PM
I hear ya Fan#5 on the 84' we have a 69 convertible Camero in the garage and a 67 chevy truck. They only see the outside on sunny days, those are the hubby's I got a 89 Mustang. If need be the real toys will save the house and the shop. I hope it doesn't get to that though.
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 23, 2008 3:18:27 PM
I also blame the unions for the move of so many of the manufacturing jobs to foreign soil. Of course the companies did not have to agree to the big benifits contracts. But if they didn't, the workers would strike.
Most of my family members have been UAW workers. I'm happy that they can live upper-middle class lives after retirement. If the employee dies, their wife or husband receives the benefits that the employee was getting. Because of the big retirement checks and the lifetime exceptional medical coverage given to retirees, the companies can no longer pay union wages. So they close plants.
I have friends who work for Ford and GM. They go to work, start their shift, work 3 or 4 hours, have someone else clock them out so they can go home. They are getting paid for 8 hours but only working 3 or 4. This happens all the time. If they get caught, a union rep. will fight for them and rarely does anyone get fired. That's one of the reasons the USA made cars do not always meet our expectations.
I've seen this kind of thing going on for over 25 years.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 23, 2008 3:45:52 PM
ganne
Aggie, you sound like my hubby. He cannot stand to be behind something he can't see through either.
for its a sfety issue on harley u want see whats going on so i just back off or go around the guy
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 3:54:43 PM
dianne
very good points u have and made about the industry
another crazy one seeing we are on the topic are the rebates, now the consumer is looking in the glove box for a 3-5k rebate and thinks that's what the dealer makes.... when in mnay cases the state tax on the car is way more than a delaer makes and up here we pay tax on used non private sales of a vehicles its nuts how much they collect on used delaer sold cars in taxes
another one that is crazy is that its a still a produce it then sell it industry.....so when the big go do we lay off or give rebates and keep the uaw happy?? hell give em reabates ect and get the shit off the lots
low finance is a better way to market
also once u get a true gm guy like truck into a tundra he aint going back
that 08 malibu is close to a camry as u can get BUT the new hip consumers want the camary.....consumers have been kind of brain washed about quailty as these sure all better quaility than before but its still car and things go wrong
its cars wars as i call it and it is the backbone of our economy....so its gets scarrrrrry when it dont run right
even great dealers like my gm clients can only do so much especially out in ca where Toy is number one......even galpin ford world's laregts ford delaer out in san fran valley can only do so much.......lol he bought honda store lol to offset his lost ford revenue lol
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 4:16:20 PM
Jon,
Good post
I really don't care if Toyota, Honda or any
other foreign car maker assembles cars here I would never buy a piece of crap foreign car. They don't offer anything I cannot buy from a U.S. car maker.
I have always found what I want from a U.S.
car maker and will continue to do so. I
agree, G.M., Ford and Chryler are right
up there at the top with their design and
technology.
Posted by: Race Fan | Apr 23, 2008 4:35:41 PM
kiss my 38 MPG Toyota driving ass everyone!! LMAO!!!!
How about THIS bull$hit?
http://www.thatsracin.com/topstories/story/13245.html
WTF? OMG? Holy Smoke batman!!!
NASCAR doesn't have the balls to do this in the top three tier, but they dang sure did it to this kid. WOW......................
And by the way, I own a Pontiac Grand AM. It's in my yard- like REAL white trash- with 90,000 miles on it, and a BLOWN THE F** UP ENGINE. And yes, I kept up with the servicing and the oils changes. WTF?
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 23, 2008 5:35:39 PM
Gretchen.
That is what I asked F5 about earlier.. I "think" he knows him , if not he knows Andy S/.
No NASCAR wouldnt have the balls to call Home Depot, AMP, Lowes, or any sponsor and take the win..
For a shock absorber?????? this is the ulitmate WTF...
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 23, 2008 6:19:40 PM
Just heard this reported by Marty Smith on NASCAR Now and the following is from jayski.com:
"Stewart to leave JGR? Sources tell Sports Illustrated that #20-Tony Stewart is working on the final stages of a deal to move from Joe Gibbs Racing to Haas CNC next season. Considering the ramifications of such a move, no one's admitting anything quite yet, as you'd expect. When reached for comment, Haas CNC Racing spokesman Ron Mench claims there's been no communication between Stewart and the organization. Stewart's PR spokesman Mike Arning was noncommittal ("I've heard what you've heard," when asked about Haas CNC) but he reminded SI [Sports Illustrated] that Stewart's contract with Gibbs runs through the 2009 season. "He's there this year and he's there next year," claimed Arning. "And I know for a fact that JGR is interested in retaining Tony for '10 and beyond. They'd like him to retire at Joe Gibbs Racing. As Tony's said many times, 'Nothing's broke. Why change it?' Tony's going to have a lot of options in front of him; why wouldn't he? But I don't see [an early out happening] ... everyone is going to live up to the terms of the contract that runs through '09." However, sources are adamant that not just the talking, but deal-making is already taking place for Stewart to go elsewhere. And, while sometimes a formidable opponent, contracts can be easily bought out, as Jamie McMurray and Kurt Busch have shown us in recent years.(Sports Illustrated), am sure this will be much dicussed about over the weekend at Talladega.(4-23-2008)"
K2 or F5 - Have you heard about this? Marty Smith seems to think it's going to happen but he also said J.D. Gibbs has said he will not let Tony out of his 2009 contract.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 23, 2008 6:21:08 PM
Diane,
The rumor I've heard as a result of me starting it is that Tony'll be replacing Casey Mears at HMS in 2009 and maybe sooner since Rick ain't happy with Casey's performance what with him being unable to drive thru puddles of water on the track and thus wrecking Junior a few races back at Calie.
One more superstar going to the Dark Side.
Don't see him going to Haas CNC unless he's going to become an equity partner.
On the UAW and union rules,
Knew a guy who worked at the Sharonville Ohio Ford transmission plant in the early 80's, an electrician, who told me it wasn't unusual for him to get only two productive hours out of a 8 hour workday and at that time he was making 50thou+ a year with overtime. According to the union rules only an electrician could unplug an item even if it was only a toaster in the break room, and someone else had to move the toaster from the area, he wasn't allowed to. The guy wasn't lazy either, just had to follow the rules.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 23, 2008 7:10:12 PM
Hey gretchen my 91 Pontiac Grand Am's engine recently died with 144,000 miles, small world, huh. So when it was time to buy another car it was off to our local dealership that sells American cars and bought a nice 2001 Buick Regal and never even thought about a rice burner or any other foreign car.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 23, 2008 7:23:34 PM
dianne
"Stewart to leave JGR? Sources tell Sports Illustrated that #20-Tony Stewart is working on the final stages of a deal to move from Joe Gibbs Racing to Haas CNC next season.
back in jan i heard that ts and ups would team up in 09 at rcr well that rcr deal wont happen from the looks of it
will not suprize me if TS leaves and MT jr better start doing something or he'll be a job
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 7:42:55 PM
Jon2
The article Diane is talking about is on
Jayski.com if you want to read it.
Who knows, maybe, Tony is going to become
an equity partner at Haas CNC.
Posted by: Race Fan | Apr 23, 2008 7:52:26 PM
Race Fan,
Marty Smith reported on ESPN that Tony was going to become 50% owner at Haas CNC. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 23, 2008 7:55:46 PM
K2 Yes I heard and WHAT THE HELL?...I'm happy for Lil Dillion but WTF??...*sounds like a mexican pissin' match to me...*not pc verbage SUE ME...
I really don't think Tony's goin' anywhere but JGR...MT Jr will most likely stay at DEI...
aggie, It's a Burt Reynolds thing...funny we share the same B-day...He's just ALOT older, I never understood what folks meant by "Kitt"?! I actually got it cuz in the 80's Dale Earnhardt raced a Mike Eddy prepared GM Goodwrench Pontiac Trans Am at the Minnesota State Fair ASA race, along with Schrader, DW, Rusty, Mark Martin and a host of of others...and I was just hooked!
Funny you should mention '85 Olds Cutlass, I'm old school Olds, My first race car I built was an '73 Omega (nova), then a 76 Cutlass, and finally my 85 Cutlass Sportsman! at the time I also drove a 85 Supreme...the now "Ex" got the new cars, and I would have got our Stratus but she pulled the I Get half bit so I sold my Race cars, 69 Cutlass Convertable, 69 Cutlass Hardtop, the 85 "Intimidator and my 68 442 W30...BTW I am in the market for a Rich Old Lady with a Race Car!...I've thought about getting a New Toyota...or 01 or newer Monte Carlo...I just HATE car payments tho! and I if i go easy on the throttle and can get 24 mpg...all I can say is Detroit needs to get their head and ass wired together and produce qaulity products all of them have "alliances" with the Japanese companies...Ford/Mazda, Chrysler/ Mitsubishi and General Motors/Toyota
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 23, 2008 8:13:08 PM
The unions are pretty much the cause for the loss of the majority of the manufacturing jobs in this country.
Posted by: Jon | Apr 23, 2008 8:13:43 PM
Hey Gretchen are you sure it's blowed up? Them 3.8 litres where notorious for head gaskets...and I'm guessin you got a Corolla?...I was looking at the TC's and drove a 5.7l Tundra TOOO F'n big
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 23, 2008 8:19:44 PM
Kurt2,
How's the Moose?? What in the hell is Nascar doing to this guy over a shock?
Took his win away, Holy Crap!! Have they ever done this before? Looks like they just opened up a major can of worms, but then again they aren't known for their smartness. How is this shock worse than what happened to Carl?
Posted by: Deb | Apr 23, 2008 8:21:34 PM
two things that occasionally piss me off are...
people who get all flushed and giddy when they talk about how great it is that they own a foreign car.
thank you for supporting american industry.
foreign cars are built here to avoid tariffs.
years ago harley was about to go out of business. the u.s. government passed tariffs on jap bikes over a certain size. that gave harley the time to get back into the game.
soon after, the jap bike companies opened american factories to avoid tariffs. by that time harley was again on solid ground.
the other thing is unions.
decades ago people, children too, worked their assess off 12 hours a day seven days a week. working conditions were beyond dangerous. thanks to osha and the unions industry was forced to improve working conditions. all the benefits you enjoy aren't there because your employer is just a really nice guy.
this link shows an average good ol' chinese factory...
http://jalopnik.com/371517/take-a-look-inside-a-chinese-smart-fourtwo-cloning-factory
"According to the translated text, these folks toil away for 12 hours a day in unheated factories with no personal protective equipment, lax regulations and questionable usage of child labor.
They live in mass housing within the factory and don't get a respectable wage.
Oh yeah, "Ha ha ha, Chinese knockoffs" we say, but when you look at the conditions and the work, it's not really that funny any more.
Its a fascinating peek into the world of low cost labor, but we wonder if the race to the bottom is really worth the cost."
Posted by: exile | Apr 23, 2008 8:36:47 PM
Hello FS, see you cant read again
"Diane,
The rumor I've heard as a result of me starting it is that Tony'll be replacing Casey Mears at HMS in 2009 and maybe sooner since Rick ain't happy with Casey's performance what with him being unable to drive thru puddles of water on the track and thus wrecking Junior a few races back at Calie."
BS can you say Hass Carter racing.. not RCR, HMS ..Bye bye TS..
Aggie keep hearding those goats with your UPS and RCR deal:)
F5, wow, I know take Sellers win, but but but??????? You know what I mean:)
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 23, 2008 8:46:15 PM
Diane
I agree, I guess we will just have to wait
& see what the deal is regarding Tony. I
have said before, I didn't think Tony would
stay with Toyota, he's a Chevy man but this
is my opinion. Tony is going to do whatever
is best for him. Chevy will be happy to get
Tony back.
Posted by: Race Fan | Apr 23, 2008 8:53:46 PM
tony the nascar team owner will be interesting as hell.
Posted by: exile | Apr 23, 2008 9:20:25 PM
Exile you are right Smoke being 50% is going to be interesting..Least they fired Jeremy already as that would have ben first on the agenda..
Cant wait till tommorrow with the stuff blowing up on the phone already...
Aggie, kiss the goats good night and make sure they are safe..
F5,
Here is the deal , all but one shock absorber was NOT changed on the car.. So NASCAR went with "blantant" on opne absorber??? WTF.. Wasnt aware that 1 could give a unfair advantage? LMAO at NASCAR///
They are FS's as well as the one with Smoke to HMS...
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 23, 2008 9:31:23 PM
I don't knoe K2...Smoke ain't no Robby!...Hass CNC?!!!...all I can say is 50% of a Turd...IS STILL 50% of a turd!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 23, 2008 10:36:46 PM
k2
Aggie keep hearding those goats with your UPS and RCR deal:)
no deal with rcr now that cherrrrioes is coming there
read it right you air rachet applicatoor lol
Posted by: aggie | Apr 23, 2008 11:50:12 PM
K2,
Wasn't it you just a short while back who told us in your all knowing way that Tony was gonna retire at JGR?
Ya better start looking for a different water fountain to hang out at the track 'cause whose ever feeding you the gossip ain't to reliable.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 24, 2008 9:14:21 AM
FS,
My fountain is just fine there. But issue being I dont sleep with Smoke, dont want to nor will.Sothe whole Haas CNC thing hit everyone with intially a WTF..
Least I can read the fact he isnt going to HMS. Never will. Not sure where your chai and your expresso mixed to come up with that.
F5, think about it, Haas has the $$$ with Chevy behiond the scenes pulling the rope on Smoke.
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 24, 2008 10:18:59 AM
Kurt 2
Any other chevy teams you see Stewart going too if he does indeed leave Gibbs? Are u hearing of any other big driver moves?
Posted by: staci | Apr 24, 2008 10:25:40 AM
Smoke would basically have control of the team and would have his pick of another driver in the other car. SOOOOO is sounds like there could be more to the rumor, who else has a contract ending that Smoke is pretty friendly with and could get along with as a team?
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 24, 2008 10:32:00 AM
few thing about TS knows, he knows his abilities, he knows what he wants to do and i think he knows and has seen whats it like for guys like mwr so with that said
for TS to start at a bottom feeder team could be a lot easier with a real well funded team and engines ect, who knows who would go with him??for jgr
one more thing TS will never own JGR with jd there so iam sure he is looking at the future and saying ive got to make my deals
there is more to him helping out chrissey wallace than just their friendship
people can think what they want about ts but deep down inside the guy is and PUTS back into the sport
there is no right or wrong for how guys make $$ off the track, but i have more respect for ts buying eldora than jr for opening a bar.
k2 @ the water fountain lol two funny
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 10:40:15 AM
Don't depend on K2 for breaking news in NASCAR. He hangs out at the wrong water fountain. He never heard about the TS possible gig which is BIG news, had him staying at JGR forever. K2's still trying to rebuild his credibility after spreading misinformation about the Rick Order. He took a major hit on his cred with that big whopper of a story.
Don't say never there K2 about TS, remember what occurred with Junior. The JN never thought he'd go with the Dark Side. Junior chose wisely.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 24, 2008 10:44:48 AM
J2, ahh we digress once again FS...
The Rick order, yeah okay. I had the helicopters buzzing that day..
I know more about what goes in in NASCAR when I am freaking asleep than you do prancing around in your HMS underoos and pom poms..
The whole game changed years ago when Kurt was bought out of his final year of his contract.Plus should Smoke getout early Chevy foots that bill
J2 or FS whichever you like please continue the barb with me:)
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 24, 2008 10:59:22 AM
But K2 I'd rather be in a #1 Toyota team than 50% equity in a bottom feeder Chevy team
Posted by: Fan#5 | Apr 24, 2008 11:12:37 AM
Does anyone know when Zippy's contract ends?
Haas CNC has lots of money. With Stewart as a partner they probably could attract another top-notch driver.
Joey Logano is waiting in the wings for a ride at JGR. Maybe they won't mind losing Tony after the 2009 season.
The next few months are going to be very interesting. So many driver and sponsor contracts are ending, Roush must move one of it's teams.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 24, 2008 11:48:27 AM
Diane,
Zippy's contract is up in 09 as well with JGR.
I think Jack Roush will technically keep all the cars, but shift one to Yates to "fit the mold "NASCAR" wants done.
First thing that should be done is get someone in the 26.All I can say is RFR best pray they keep Robbie R happy...or he will walk
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 24, 2008 12:47:28 PM
I agree K2 since Rob's dad passed he hasn't been the same
Posted by: Fan#5 | Apr 24, 2008 1:02:52 PM
J2 Your comments to K2 are uncalled on this subject. I remember the race you are talking about when Shrub had the long pit. I also remember him stating on the radio he would wreck the car. It was long after that race Mears was told to let Shrub by because he was in the chase and needed the points. That was played on the internet for all to hear. Mears was clearly disappointed that the had to do this but he followed orders given by Hendrick. What makes you think he would not manipulate a pit stop if he would manipulate the ending order of a race?
Posted by: Graceann | Apr 24, 2008 1:06:11 PM
K2 - Thanks for the info.
F5 - I agree that Tony is better off with JGR than a bad team. However with the right employees and enough money I think a bad team can become a good team. But how long will that take? Tony is almost 37 years old and I don't think he would be happy running in the rear or mid-pack for even one year.
The bad thing about Haas CNC is they get their tech support and engines from the "dark side".
K2 & F5 - The interviews I've seen with Robbie R. show that he's not at all happy. And in Jack's interviews you can tell he doesn't care whether Robbie is happy or not. He's said "in so many words" for Robbie TO DEAL WITH IT.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 24, 2008 1:14:48 PM
k2
I know more about what goes in in NASCAR when I am freaking asleep than you do prancing around in your HMS underoos and pom poms..
wow that was a gretchen type post lol
mt jr iam kida of wondering about and yeah RR is a top crew chief and can work anywhere
F5
lol u like bottom feeders lol but whith chev $$$ and ups and a few other its one rich fat cash bottom feeder LOL
and engine wise well you can always get some from rcr which dont blow up anymorenow that jr is not blowing them up
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 1:21:10 PM
I think Kyle Busch's performance in the 18 this year shows the impact that driver talent can have on a team. The 18 was mediocre for a few years there and now leads laps every race by virtue of the guy behind the wheel. Therefore, I think Tony could definitely go to a team like Haas CNC and win races. I gotta believe Chevrolet would THROW money at Haas CNC with Tony over there to help ensure their success. As for another driver to be Tony's partner in crime over there--I like Scott Riggs but I think he might belong in Busch and/or Trucks--I would LOVE to see the Bud Boy as Tony's teammate.
Posted by: Kari | Apr 24, 2008 1:45:50 PM
Yes F5 it is a Corolla. I drove a damned KIA for about 1 week. LOL. Drove it from Tallahassee to Jacksonville and back. Used 1/4 tank of gas. Damn Koreans.....
Now, I did crank the G'Am up yesterday, was quickly engulfed in a cloud of smoke from the tailpipes and the hood. BUT.......it runs a little bit, and I pulled it into the garage, so we wouldn't look like WHITE TRASH!!! with my brokedown car. It sounds as if a pipe is just rattling around under the hood, knocking around, bouncing off something. Hell, I don't know.
But....fear not Proud Americans. My Cousin owns a "salvage yard". I assume a salvage yard is a junk yard. He has found a wrecked Grand Am, same year model, 2001. Car was wrecked from the rear. Engine has 19,000 miles on it. It is en route as I type.
So, I will be wheeling around soon in my AMERICAN made car. But alas I will drive TC to work still. 70 mile round trip. I can't afford to drive the Grand Am at 22-25 mpg, when TC gets 35- 38 and my gas is $3.59 pg.
Now, back to NASCAR.
On TS: I forsee sometime in the future him owning a team, but maybe driving for someone else. Sort of like Dale E did.
On Peyton Sellars: WTF was that NASCAR? A shock absorber? Get real. Making a fucking example out of a Eastseries driver? WTF? Get some cajones Bri. Let's talk about missing Oil Pan lids, altered spoilers, Fuel additives, etc. Jesus christ.
On Dega: MY FAVORITE RACE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!
I am STOKED people!! I mean STOKED. Got Junior PJ pants, new hat- SANS the HMS logo, NEW Shirt, A case of RED amp, a bottle of Grey Goose, a case of Coors- the official beer of NASCAR, and some Bobby Flay recipes for the grill!!!! Whooooo Hooooo. I am READY!!!!!!!!!!!! AN
Truck Series.....THANK GOD THEY'RE RACING THIS WEEKEND!! I was having withdrawals. I am SOOO hooked on the trucks!!
Aarons 312. ALWAYS exciting, because the CUP regulars can drive that fast- MOST of them LOL- but the Buschies have troubles, and wrecks ensue.....
On the NOTION that TS would go to HMS. God, please don't let that happen. Please God don't.
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 24, 2008 2:04:44 PM
Hola Gang...Gretch,you are a marketing dream with all your "equipment" for Dega.I'm with you on the GG.Negatory on the CL.My adult bevrage of choice this week is Southpaw Lite!I want to be pumped but wasn't the COT used in the last Dega that was a snoozer?Hope this race is not,as it has always been my favorite track(beside the ROCK of course!).
I see FS #1 is battling someone that is actually in the loop.TS and HMS?Surely not.Jr was bad enough.I'm sure Nascar would love to see him move over to Haas to help give them some much needed driver/CC/PR ect...to get them more on the map and draw potential sponsors.
Gang,I'm still sore from 8 softball games this past weekend.My old ass got the MVP out of 32 teams!Bragging?Damn right.Showed the younger punks what it takes to shut the pie hole and that is hitting missles thru them!!
Well I'm getting stoked as well for the weekend.No ball,decent weather and Dega.K2 give me a head's up when you find out about the Rock.Be safe ya'll.........
Posted by: DJ | Apr 24, 2008 2:25:35 PM
So Diane are you getting the impression that Robbie's "promotion" to being Director of Sitting Behind A Desk was for other than the family reasons we discussed a while ago.
Here's the bottom line. Robbie wanted to remain CC for Kenseth and the "I miss my family" line was nothing but a smokescreen that was offered to shade the real reason why Robbie was "promoted," and that is: Jack and Fenway gave him a choice either to get behind a desk or hit the road.
In an ESPN article (Terry Blount 4/3/2008) on the, Robbie is no longer the CC for Matt deal, matter the Terry stated it was a very reluctant Robbie to move to the director's chair at Roush-Fenway. I thought so all along and I'm usually right.
Anytime I hear the "personal reasons" or the "family reasons" line, I will win the bet almost ever time that the target is getting shoved out or into a lesser position.
It was an either/or choice with little wiggle room offered to Robbie. Promoted, don't think so, in light of the high profile job he had as being one of the better driver's CC, he got demoted.
GA,
Re: the Rick Order. Once again according to greater and more reliable sources than myself with respect to the alleged Rick Order, POPPYCOCK.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 24, 2008 2:27:49 PM
gretchen
iam still duh onhow teh french make such a good vodka??
k2
where tehre is smoke there is fire and NO iam not ragging on you but the infamous gasman's rummour is coming true with TS just the wrong team ........20 and the ups deal and where ever makes sense.......smoke wants what his buddys khi and jr and jg have a foundation to be team owners one day and a powerful one and at jgr it aint gonna happen,,,,,,,so he cuts himself a deal at hass and get some engines and brings in ashit load of cash
yeah 10 years at the depot and hey maybe its time to move??? that deal was done when bob d was there and bob d gone bub bye so who knows with the depot
the buzzzzz and comercials ups could do up with ts are an addmans dream
should be interesting next few weeks..........makes sense for ts to be with chev in the big picture for chev and TS.....ts usually wakles up right about now and an announcement and some wins and its like a lil aded bonus for ups for 09 with the buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
trucks are the real race most weekends
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 2:28:19 PM
Aggie - Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Tony cares about being "powerful". The ownership deal might mean he's looking to the future since I don't think he wants to be a driver for very many more years.
Some have said that Tony doesn't like having 2 young, successful teammates. But I think he has enough self confidence not to care about that kind of thing. He's already proven he's ONE of the most talented drivers ever.
J2 - I didn't say anything about the reason Robbie was "promoted or demoted". I have no idea why it happened. Thanks for making this statement:
"I thought so all along and I'm usually right".
I actually laughed out loud on that one.
Posted by: Diane | Apr 24, 2008 2:49:02 PM
"My adult bevrage of choice this week is Southpaw Lite!"
Holy shiite DJ!! We drank the hell out of S'Paw when I worked at the sheriff's dept. LOL. I was a "Telecommunications Officer" LMAO!!! Ha Ha, fancy word for a dispatcher. Y'all KNOW y'all would just LOVE to talk to ME if you called 911.........
But at any rate. Myself and a few co-workers got off at 3am and converged on my house to drink S'Paw, throw darts. and play......showing my age......Playstation ONE!!! LOL....good times....
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 24, 2008 2:56:59 PM
I knew you'd enjoy that one.
Tony's probably at the stage in life where he's accomplished much and wants to get into the CUP owner thing. He'll probably still drive if he does become an owner, sort of like #3 and Mikey.
A guy with this great of talent would be a major loss to the sport if he hung it up as a driver during his prime. I've always felt that Tony was a major factor to win in any CUP race he's entered over the years.
Posted by: Jon2 | Apr 24, 2008 3:14:59 PM
I've always felt that Tony was a major factor to win in any CUP race he's entered over the years.
Damnit. Twice in two days I agree with you.
He is one of those drivers who I posted about last Summer that could prolly take a Pinto and pull a top 20 finish with it. Just a goddamn good wheelman.
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 24, 2008 3:43:56 PM
A Pinto, heck, Tony could drive a lawnmower around the track and find a way to beat half of today's Cup field.
Posted by: Kari | Apr 24, 2008 3:52:25 PM
Gretch,I got turned on to Southpaw lite while living in South Charlotte.I always like to try a new one,especially 5.0 content.Went to a beer cave down 521 and it was 9.99 a case.There is your winner!!Actually isn't bad.Anywho,After we won that tourney late Sunday in Va,we stopped at a store and it 4.29 a 12.Cold,got me where I needed to be for the 4 hr ride...as if I hadn't had 2 to 10 all day.One of my buds had bought 2 cases of Keystone Lite and I got turned on to that as well.No Boolites for me.Beer,Softball,beer,racing,ACDC, and boobs!The good life.........and beer.
I'm a RG fan whether he is doing well or racing the leaders 2 laps down.I either like TS alot or he gets under my skin.Same with Kyle and KH.I guess they kinda remind me of myself(minus the driving skill and a few more $$)with their "attitudes".You know, don't take any crap deal.These cats can drive and don't hold anything back on the track or off......beer.
Posted by: DJ | Apr 24, 2008 4:17:40 PM
dianne
i didnt power monggger lol but u know what i meant, power as in like have his own deal or get something going within JGR racing
personally i like the guy for what he puts back into teh sport and amongst weekend racers he is a like a god and up your way he is a god lol
gretchen seeing how we turn this into a fine liquor blog lol very so often
try that hypotiq unreal drink
http://www.hpnotiq.com/
use my age may 27 1925
to get into the site LOL check out the HYPNO TINI
site has comeplete intructions how to mix one
be careful the site has that pecker smoocher music so watch yourself OK and keep you hands on your keyboards LOL
UNREAL drink
gretchen did u2 there see the UFC fights and whats your guy into hockey now right??
Mike daley you outhere??
how about the habs??? now the flyers next!!
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 4:22:01 PM
J2, kepp playing with your Poppy COCK, and thinking Robbie was demoted etc... Nuff said there...
Posted by: Kurt2 | Apr 24, 2008 4:39:11 PM
Not the Techno Pickle Smoocher Muzak! The Peter Puffer Tunes.....OMG
Yes, hockey. My god. Hockey. The Penguins.
Yes, the UFC. Sweating, crazed men beating the hell out of each other. He watched some fight on PPV recently, not sure who it was. I like Ortiz and Lidell. Wasn't them he was watching though.
Actually he's been watching NASCAR lately, but I make him nervous with my vocalization during the race.
He likes the # 29. (He's about as skinny as Harvick with a head just as big.) Stepdaughter likes the "m and m car"- regardless of who drives it- and Kenseth.
Posted by: gretchen | Apr 24, 2008 4:51:32 PM
Gretchen
Yes, hockey. My god. Hockey. The Penguins.
iam impressed for a guy who the only ice he has seen is in his drinks lol he a nhl fan!!
ufc ok what is that 2 sweaty tattooed white guys ontop of each other for what 15 minutes iam still duh on it????????? 18-35 year go crazzzzzzzzzzy
lmao at the KH comment lol
these booze web sites just make u drink more lol unreal sites, its almost like the drink is going to come out of the monitor lol
Not the Techno Pickle Smoocher Muzak! The Peter Puffer Tunes.....OMG
iam like where iam I at the HMS website
DJ
Beer,Softball,beer,racing,ACDC, and boobs!The good life.........and beer.
you forgot ICE to keep the beers cold
yeah u cant beat the 4B's of life
beer babes bikes and boobs lol ok plus i pod wifi
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 5:38:24 PM
Aggie,
Damn your HABS! Kicked my BRUINS ass in game 7!! Again!!
Posted by: EARNHARDT NATION | Apr 24, 2008 5:45:42 PM
aggie what about my Wild loosing to the Av's and Tha Caps loosing to Philly...I scare my dog when I watch Hockey...I get animated!...don't know what happen to the Canes this year!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Apr 24, 2008 5:46:52 PM
dj
Beer,Softball,beer,racing,ACDC, and boobs!The good life.........and beer.
f--k man u sound stressed OUT------
that has to be stressful deciding what order do them in ??
you better get on my work schedule; start at noon quit at one and take the rest of teh day off....ok come in eqarly at 11 45 and figure where to have lunch
when that dont work for you then any day that ends in Y take it off
finally if the above 2 dont work for you try not working on any month that ends in a Y
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 6:05:54 PM
ok u hockey nuts
well philly has this kid from down the road mike richards and a hard nosed kid from west canada will always out check a european so bub bye caps......well teh habs were luck i tell yah en iam a long hab fans and they are a lil lucky
f5 the game is fast now and unreal how fast it is
its like the final 4 for us up here only takes 6 weeks lol so lots drinking lol
EN the habs are an interesting story as they hired ryan walter to work with them oin builkding this team concept
i send k2 the link and iam sure nascar gusy have had thse gurus in ect but ryan has a very unique approach and is just getting into working with pro teams
k2 did u check his site out??
how about in soccer and the champions league.....down to 4 teams and my guys at manchester united tied 0-0 with the hot shot ronaldo missing a free quick......now the guy does the unthinkable ala joe namath and promises a goal next game ????
the euro cup is on in june so iam taking the month off
how about criquet you guys into that LOL
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 6:18:15 PM
DJ,
The Talladega race, last year, was the first race there, in the COT. It was also in the chase. So, the chase drivers were driving very carefully. The rest of the field was still unsure of how the new-style cars would handle, when racing two and three-wide. They raced the COT, at Daytona, so those doubts should be gone and we should have a great race.
Robby's doing double duty, this week, with the make-up of the Dakar Rally(?) Congrats, on the MVP.
As for Tony, I think he does want more say in what happens on his team. Besides, with 50% ownership, he can say and do anything he wants and not have to worry about "the Coach" coming down on him, or sending him to "anger management". Tony's a great driver, but something about his personality doesn't click, with me. I do respect his driving skills and his charity work. But, it will be a tough job, turning those two field-filler teams around.
Posted by: dave | Apr 24, 2008 6:39:36 PM
Dave
I do respect his driving skills and his charity work. But, it will be a tough job, turning those two field-filler teams around.
i agree but with 3-4 key guys and smoke and an engine program he will be right there........its the cot/iroc car now,
put ts in a dodge and he's be top 10 right now........the shit teams are just that no$$$ mostly TS brings lots of cash 20 mil from ups alone iam sure and another 10-20 in associates, then he drags zippy and the key crew guys and Mark C over with him and a 4 gig usb key with the cot sets up lol and their OFF
people people people make a great TS wont have any problem attracting good cup people........TS is a likeable guy PERIOD and a winner!! on and off the track and he is from a sane mid west family, just by helping out ole errol at eldora to me makes the guy a stand up guy
ups wants a rock roll star they have one except for no tattos,,,,,,,ups with that suckhole phoney CE to me is a brutal marriage........the 17 is the pain in the ass at rfr, iam starting to think the guy cant get along with anyone BUT still CE suxs
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 7:59:17 PM
ok a few of you guys u have been around awhile
ts doing what he is doing is this not like when dw went from jj to hms back then when hms was a f all team??
same thing dw had 3 champiosnhiops and went over to a shit up and coming team!!
also doesnt hass have engines from hms??
chev says hey ts we'll step with $$$ for where u anyywhere u go, come back to chev and whats a year to build up, we'll figure this out and we'll build u a team and give u control, just slug it out for a year like trd did with mwr
its about change and they can build their own program not like jr did and step into a ride/program
TS wants out, he wants control and his own team
lots of dominos to fall down
ok where is mt jr going???????
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 8:29:03 PM
ok a few of you guys u have been around awhile
ts doing what he is doing is this not like when dw went from jj to hms back then when hms was a f all team??
same thing dw had 3 champiosnhiops and went over to a shit up and coming team!!
also doesnt hass have engines from hms??
chev says hey ts we'll step with $$$ for where u anyywhere u go, come back to chev and whats a year to build up, we'll figure this out and we'll build u a team and give u control, just slug it out for a year like trd did with mwr
its about change and they can build their own program not like jr did and step into a ride/program
TS wants out, he wants control and his own team
lots of dominos to fall down
ok where is mt jr going???????
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 8:59:32 PM
ups with that suckhole phoney CE to me is a brutal marriage........
"will CARL drive the big brown truck"
just doesn't sound right.
plus, most people's answer to that marketing question would be...
WHO GIVES A SHIT.
Posted by: exile | Apr 24, 2008 9:27:10 PM
exile
lol good one
where yah been and whats your take on tony and where is going exile??
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 9:53:39 PM
K2
you know the numbers, office depot is what 15 mill for the 99in 07, now rfr wants what 24 million?? So ups might step up to the 99
or
Ups could look good at the 31 but I think ups is more in fav of rfr rather than rcr
jb is tops siliar age to dj not a rock and roll guy but that might be a diversion from ups??
Wow 24 million for the 31 sure would feed their goats iam sure??
Posted by: aggie | Apr 24, 2008 10:43:06 PM
aggie
where yah been and whats your take on tony and where is going exile??
i'd been waiting for the cable tech to get here to fix my f'ed up cox cable tv picture.
for 3 months i've called and explained they didn't take out the filter the last time i changed my service.
they of course say i'm too dumb to know jackshit about filters.
so, this nice hispanic dude shows up, checks it out and says... hey, they didn't take the filter out.
tony...
a writer said, before his last contract negotation tony shopped, got a fat offer from chip, and resigned for much more with jgr.
i don't think he wants to stay with joe the christian. tony ownes other teams and wants a nascar team.
maybe.
anyway i think the 18 gets the good shit. tony and hamlin get what's left over.
he probably didn't want a john 3:16 sticker on his car and is outta there.
but then, like cable filters, i might not know jackshit about tony's future plans either.
cox cable sucks.
Posted by: exile | Apr 24, 2008 11:50:41 PM
exile
they of course say i'm too dumb to know jackshit about filters.
same just the ones in my furnace and i dont use them when i roll the odd reefer
3:16 sticker on his car and is outta there.
exile TS might me a stone cold steve austin fan lol
Posted by: aggie | Apr 25, 2008 12:26:08 AM
I think Smoke will be at RCR or HMS.
Never say never (i.e. Smoke will never be at HMS) and never say guarantee (i.e. guarantee Smoke will retire at JGR). Because nobody knows for sure.
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