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So I made everyone mad.
For goodness sake people. There is no reason to get this upset over my last post about drivers being considered athletes. I most have gotten 50 emails cursing me and telling me what an idiot I am. That doesn't really bother me, but because I make a valid point doesn't mean everyone has to send me threatening emails. If I were to make that same post on a football site, the response would be 100% percent the other way. So, just because everyone that reads this site thinks that racing is the only thing going, doesn't mean that what I am saying is that far off. This same argument can be said for Fisherman, Poker Players, and Hunters. They all take alot of talent to do and do well, but I don't consider any of them to be athletes. So everyone just calm down and take a sip of beer out of your Dale Earnhardt mug and relax. I don't need anyone to bust an onion over this little discussion.
April 28, 2005 in Race talk | Permalink
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Comments
actually it just goes to show you have only a rudimentary concept of racing
you quite probably are not even qualified to have a web column on racing...how did ya luck into this gig ?
I have read u before & I could definately write better articles than you week in & week out...WITHOUT a journalism degree
basically u just showed everybody you dont know shit about racin !
it is hard to concentrate & stay focused 250 miles on NASCAR THUNDER, much more so for 500, with real cars & tremendous heat inside the car, & actually muscling a less than perfect handling 3400 pounds lap after lap around all those competitors with the radio going with the crew chief & spotter
these races are physically grueling...how do explain fellas losing 10 or more pounds during a race..
Posted by: DW | Apr 28, 2005 12:41:35 PM
They loose 10 pounds cause there fat to start with.
Posted by: Trent | Apr 28, 2005 1:00:19 PM
Trent - you're talking out your ass. It's the old farts that are fat to begin with, all the young guys are slim, trim, and hardcore.
Their reflexes are faster, their endurance and focus is better, and their fear threshhold is higher than the old guys.
I think the old guys need to lose their rides.
Posted by: Rick H | Apr 28, 2005 1:22:59 PM
I've heard both Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace talk about losing some pounds during a race and I don't consider either one of them to be fat or fearless... both are great athletes with the stamina and strength to last through a 500 lap race
Posted by: M Benson | Apr 28, 2005 1:46:59 PM
OK, here is some breaking news race fans…. driver’s are NOT athletes!
Drivers do compete in a SPORT that requires a multitude of talents, experience, guts and mental conditioning. But, the success of a driver depends much more on the strengths of his team than the strengths and athleticism of his/HER body. By team I’m referring to the horsepower of the engines, the aerodynamics of the cars, the mechanical genius of the “set up”, the ATHLETIC ability of the pit crew, the race strategy of the crew chief/engineer, and of course the conditioning of the driver to compete for the allotted race length.
None of the above mentioned elements of a race team function independently of one another. If you have a breakdown in any one area you loose!
Lance Armstrong or Dan O’Brian are arguably the best athletes in the world. You put either one of those guys in any car their athletic superiority will NOT improve the performance of a particular race team. In contrast, you take any driver and put them in a decathlon or Tour De France and they would choke 4 hours into it.
A driver is nothing more than a physically fit P.R. rep that promotes the team’s sponsor and DRIVES the car. He doesn’t throw it, shoot it, hit it or ride it. He pushes peddles and turns a wheel… hardly an athletic ability. My gradmother can do that, she just doesn’t have to drive 500 miles to church.
Having said that, my point is, the car is the “athlete” in this sport not the driver. The performance is the car.
Who are the most physically fit drivers? My guess would be Mark Martin, Dale Jarrett and Michael Waltrip. Not exactly the class of the field when it comes to this year’s point standings. The drivers at the top, Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson, KURT BUSH are hardly athletic in any since of the word, yet they dominate because they have the BEST car. Is Jimmy Spencer an athlete??? HELL no! But, if he was driving the 48 car this year I’ll guarantee you that he would be in the top 10 in points.
Drivers are not athletes!
Posted by: uncle Buddy | Apr 28, 2005 2:02:15 PM
Read your dictionary (if you have one):
athlete - one who participates esp. in competitive sports.
Posted by: GG | Apr 28, 2005 2:02:50 PM
Uncle Buddy---- since you brought this up...
"None of the above mentioned elements of a race team function independently of one another. If you have a breakdown in any one area you loose!" lmao... the same could be said for MLB NFL AND THE NBA So with that said... even I can dribble a ball!
Posted by: M Benson | Apr 28, 2005 2:20:51 PM
Yes, M, very true... but dribbling a ball doesn't make someone an athlete either.
Posted by: uncle Buddy | Apr 28, 2005 2:26:10 PM
As for it being a team effort... very much so. Lets ask some veterns who was on the teams when they were coming up... Dale Sr, Wallace, Martin...and many more drivers before my time. They were their own mechanics... pit crews... crew chiefs...no money and most of the time used up cars and parts... and look where they took it... what they have achieved... No one can just jump in a car and do what these drivers do.
Posted by: M Benson | Apr 28, 2005 2:30:11 PM
I couldn't agree more "M". Those guys were great, and they still are. They made the sport what it is today by their dedication and achievements. And no, just anyone cannot jump into a car and do what the drivers do... especially ME! Nevertheless, they aren't athletes when it comes to physical performance.
Posted by: uncle Buddy | Apr 28, 2005 2:38:29 PM
I have to disagree again... Take Harvick for instance... the Bristol night race last year... he had run 2 races previous... and was wore out and couldn't finsish the cup race... because the "physical performance" was not there. Not one of us can imagine what these drivers bodies endure on a weekly basis... but yet they you don't refer to them as athletes.
I've been up close and seen these drivers after the races... even the "young guns" the ones who work out, are breathing like they just ran 500 miles instead of drove it.
To be able to wheel a car around a track at those speeds and the g-forces and at times do it with a car that isn't up to par takes not only talent but strength and stamina. I can remember Rudd winning that race with no power steering and the heat was so unbearable he was laying in victory lane...he is an athlete in every sense of the word.
Posted by: M Benson | Apr 28, 2005 2:53:40 PM
Sure, Harvick had a tough weekend at Bristol. But, who is to say that he wasn’t exhausted because of the Budweiser’s that he was hammering with Dale Jr. & Tony Stewart the night before the race??? I seriously doubt you would catch Armstrong or O’Brian partying the night before a competition. And if Rudd was such a great “athlete” he probably would have been able to celebrate his 1998 Martinsville win with Gatorade instead of oxygen. Harvick & Jr. may be tougher and in better shape than a Bobby Hamilton Jr. but that doesn’t qualify them as athletes. They still just push peddles and turn the wheel... to the left.
Posted by: uncle Buddy | Apr 28, 2005 3:17:23 PM
The weight loss is irrelevant. The 10 pounds lost is WATER weight. Just because you play a sport does't make you "athletic". The combination of size, speed, and agility makes someone an athlete. Mike Vick can learn how to drive a race car, it may take him 20 years, but he'll be able to it. On the other hand, Jeff Gordon could NEVER do what Mike Vick does on the field. Throwing the ball far and running and dodging opponents like he does is just God given ability.
Posted by: Jeff | Apr 28, 2005 3:49:18 PM
Drive fast, turn left.... drink beer!!! Whoooooooo - Earn-hardt!!!
Posted by: Booger | Apr 28, 2005 3:51:33 PM
Trent I meant to post this on your first entry concerning this subject. Due to various things I failed to.
But first let me address those the Emailed you. You're gutless swine! You have an opinion but are afraid to post them for the public to view and or critique them.
And if Trent is smart he labled your accounts as spam to be auto deleted by his Email client.
A couple words for "DW" who in part wrote this: "I could definately write better articles than you week in & week out...WITHOUT a journalism degree
basically u just showed everybody you dont know shit about racin !"
Really! You, write a better column? With the use of phrases such as "just showed everybody" it's plain to see you don't lie, you may not possess a journalism degree. It's also plain high school english may have been a problem also. BTW "dont" is normally written as, "don't."
Now on to you Trent: As someone that is so close to the NASCAR community it is surprising you can hold the opinion you do.
I'm not here to flame you but to offer a differing opinion, and provide sources of information that show just how misguided you are. I will grant you one thing, there are some drivers that may fit your description. BUT they are in such a small minority they should be discounted as examples for this discussion.
First there is this article from July last year. (don't be afraid, the free registration won't hurt you!)
http://www.theindependent.com/stories/070204/nas_fit02.shtml
Included is this Brian Vickers quote: "The only people who say race car drivers aren't athletes either don't like the sport or understand it,"
Then this article from MSNBC, also from last year:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243400/
Here is a small section quoting a driver some of the mis-guided might call old and fat.
"Former Winston Cup champion Dale Jarrett trains six days per week to prepare for the competition of racing.
“I lift weights and do cardio Monday through Friday, then Saturday do an additional day of cardio” says Jarrett, who like many of his racing peers, was an outstanding multi-sport athlete in high school.
And finally Trent, and so you can't just pass these references off as just another persons opinion that carries no more or less weight than yours here is the science part of the deal.
Published by the American College of Sports Medicine. Subtitled: " RACECAR DRIVERS' PHYSICAL DEMANDS COMPARABLE TO ELITE ATHLETES"
http://www.acsm.org/publications/newsreleases2002/racecar_driver_demands120902.html
Uncle Buddy you need to read it also. It's a shame for so many to wonder the earth and be so clueless.
And "Booger" If you have nothing to offer of substance other than stupid comments that show an obvious bias against a driver and zero to this topic just sit on the sidelines and let the adults converse among themselves.
Posted by: Marc | Apr 28, 2005 4:54:52 PM
Working out, physical exertion, mental focus, and - my favorite criterion, that "most people can't do it well".......My little sister's cheerleading squad will be very happy to know that the argument is settled, and they are in fact athletes! (Going by some of the definitions posted here, that is). Last year when my office's air conditioning was broken, I lost about seven pounds one day. WOO-HOO! Sign me up for the Olympics! I'm an ATHLETE!!!
Some of y'all (DW, I'm talking to you) are taking this discussion WAY too seriously. Whether you think race car drivers are athletes or not depends on your definition of "athlete," and I think we've established that there are differing opinions. But I'd like to thank Trent for starting an interesting debate.
I seem to remember that ESPN.com did a survey last year like the one someone else mentioned earlier. They evaluated dozens of sports based on several factors involved in them - sustained physical activity, danger, mental focus, etc. Drivers were rated highly on danger and focus, obviously, but I can't remember how they were rated overall. Of course, that survey's designations were also completly subjective, so I suppose it's still open for debate.
Posted by: Sara | Apr 28, 2005 6:22:20 PM
Who cares what they think, Trent? This is the only blog that isn't a whinefest. Keep it up!
Posted by: G | Apr 28, 2005 7:12:11 PM
Dude, that just means you're doing a good job...it really doesn't matter what position you take as long as you get people emotionaly involved in your column! Kinda like what Jeff Gordon says about getting booed...
Posted by: Larry Latham | Apr 28, 2005 7:33:20 PM
Your column didn't make me mad. I love reading your posts. I like to hear things from a crew member's point of view. If other people don't like this blog then they don't HAVE to read it.
Posted by: Steph | Apr 28, 2005 7:33:43 PM
PS - I didn't know you had an Uncle named Buddy!
Posted by: Larry Latham | Apr 28, 2005 7:39:29 PM
Trent, you got it right.
Competition doesn't equal athleticism. NASCAR drivers are in the same class as golfers---extremely skilled at an extremely hard sport. I think everyone is taking your comments as a put down or some sort of negative label. Look, we all love racing and the guys that perform every Sunday, but you have to face the facts, these drivers are not athletes.
Posted by: Justin | Apr 28, 2005 8:03:45 PM
Justin: "NASCAR drivers are in the same class as golfers."
I would suggest you read the American College of Sports Medicine report linked above.
Education is a wonderful thing.
Posted by: Marc | Apr 28, 2005 8:26:46 PM
All i wanted to do was share my opinion on driver/athletes and get some other peoples opinions. Everyone has thought about this and I just wanted to see the racing communities take on it. Now I know.
Posted by: Trent | Apr 28, 2005 8:56:00 PM
I havent read most of the above post, but I did read the "so I made everyone mad" opener. I did feel the need to respond to this. I dont know what your definition of an athlete is....but what would you call someone who does the following:
Awakes at 3:00am to blistering cold
Walks and or jogs 4-6 miles through 6 inches to 14 inches of snow, eats only the highest energy bars, hopefully completes what he sets out to do....then lugs 200-300 lbs of dead weight back through the exact conditions that got him to that point.
For you to say, that hunters, fisherman, drivers, etc. are not athletes...is pure garbage.
And by the way....I am not sipping out of a Earnhardt mug at the time....but it isnt far away.....hell....I dont even think the most die hard Gordon fan would agree with your trash about what makes an athlete and what dont!! Hmmm...wait...I got it....get busted for dope a few times, beat women, get a few DUI's, deny being a role model to todays youth,and make more money than their entire family is worth, under todays thinking....I suppose that is what makes a modern day athlete...
Posted by: billy | Apr 28, 2005 10:37:16 PM
OK Billy, since you have such a great understanding for what an athlete should be, why dont you tell me what isnt an athlete. All Ive heard is everyone defending their claim about who or what is an athlete. By all the athletic definitions I've heard, I dont know anyone who is not an athlete. Where do you draw the line between who is an athlete and who isn't.
Posted by: Trent | Apr 29, 2005 7:20:22 AM
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