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What if Bruton really did by Nascar
Nascar is no different than any other business in the fact that it can be run into the ground. With alot of changes being made to the way Nascar operates it should be no shock that ratings are down and attendance is down. I think if you were to ask the drivers what they think of the new car they would laugh. So with all the changes being made i wonder what would happen if Bruton Smith really did by Nascar. He's been around the sport for ever and has an idea of how to get people in the seats. I think over the last couple of years Nascar has tried to appeal to the masses and forgot who there real fan base was. With hard times ahead the true fans will be loyal and the fair weather Californians will be back at the house. Nascar has made a big mistake in forgetting who got them as big as they are. Expanding all over the country is OK, but leaving all the tracks that held all the true fans was a big mistake. Even in bad times you could sell out wilkesboro and The Rock. Now we spend more time on the west coast racing for people who don't even know what there watching. Even at that the stands are only about 40% filled. So i cant imagine how bad its gonna get next year when the economy gets even worse than it is now. Maybe Bruton can save it or maybe were in for a long haul.
November 6, 2008 | Permalink
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Well the Rock and Wilksboro only seat 30K and 40K respectively, while California seats 91K, so even at 40%, it's still beating sell out crowds at those places. That holds true of a lot of places. I don't understand the notion that if tracks don't sell out, the race is a failure. If a track holds 90K to 100K seats, and you don't sell 5% of the seats, you're still doing good.
Ratings and attendance are down from Nascar's peak, which was only a couple of years ago. They aren't dramatically down from say, 10 or 15 years ago. All major sports go through ups and down. There popularity in the American culture determine how big those peaks are. The NFL is least impacted because it is so popular. It's what people want.
Nascar was never about high energy, high emotion for 4 quarters or 2 halfs in 2 or 3 ours. It was progessive excitement over 4 or 5 hours. And it had a respectable following.
But the Nascar (before the current france) wanted to be big time, compete with big sports. And they have done a good job of growing the sport. All involved, Nascar, Owners, drivers, pit crews, are all richer for it.
But Nascar ain't the NFL. It ain't college football. It's still 4 or 5 hours and 4 or 5 hundred miles. And a lot of people don't want or have the time to sit around for that long. America likes it's excitment packaged, short bursts, and in only a few hours.
Nascar was never going to be able to maintain the level it was out. It's still going to be better than it was 10 or 15 years ago, but it's going to decline.
Shorter races, a refined points system, and cheaper prices would help.
Posted by: Michael | Nov 6, 2008 5:00:16 PM
Not all fans in Southern California are fair weather fans Trent. Some of us are die hard fans who are transplants from other areas and have been going to races since 1978. I already have my tickets for both races here in California for next season. As for your assessment of the stands only being 40% full, unless you are talking about the rainy February race this year, I'd say you are wrong. From where I sat 75% to 80% would be more accurate. Let's not stretch the truth. I don't know how you can compare the Rock or Wilkesboro to the West Coast. Of course those tracks would sell out, they are in or close to NASCAR country.
I think part of the problem here in California is the perception of the sport. My manager said to me one day "You have to like country music, you are a NASCAR fan." (I can't stand it by the way, but to each his own)I think it's still seen as a southern sport out here. Other parts of the problem are there are a lot of other activities to do out here. Plus the ticket prices have sky rocketed and the speedway saves the better seats for season ticket holders, even if they don't sell them. Hopefully President Zucker will change that.
Maybe they need to take a date away from us, and I hope they don't, but don't take both. I enjoy the races however after attending most of my races at Dover, the size of this track makes it more difficult to watch. But it's better than nothing.
I enjoy your reading your blog and getting an insiders perspective, but I have to protest this post. There are plenty of fans out here who care.
Wayne
Tustin, CA
Posted by: Wayne | Nov 6, 2008 5:24:57 PM
Shorter races would be an improvement for the TV viewers. But at the track it is like is that it.
There use to be alot of shorter races if I remember right. 250-300 milers , then 400 for special event and then 500 for the big ones. Then the 600, was it always 600 miles?
The races are to long, tivo does help a bunch, kind of blows those comercial dollars! HaHa
And as Jr. eluded too there are just to many races to even care about all of them. Sure some fans will follow every second no matter if there was 100 races a season.
But in Nascar it's more about the $$$ than what's best for the show.
Posted by: CalifCarl | Nov 6, 2008 5:36:26 PM
Hey this Cali Girl knows her racing, yeah Fontucky sucks as far as being another cookie cutter track but it does have some good racing that TV doesn't show and it's the closest track I have so I am at both races every year. I sat in the rain in Feb, I've also sat in the rain at RIR, IRP, Indy and Martinsville and have baked at Fontucky & Indy. Once a year I travel somewhere for a race and by far RIR is still my fav for quality racing, get more tracks like that! I've heard the drivers say that too more then once.
Bruton has some nice tracks so I'm sure he could do something brilliant unlike what is being done now but even he needs to lower his prices (and vegas should allow coolers). That rolling brick that created even worse follow the leader non racing needs to be the first to go. Lower the prices and get more for your ticket would be good. Also the tv schedule should be limited to one network so you don't need to search for races and put up with the idiots each network has, pull the good ones and create one show.
Posted by: Jamie | Nov 6, 2008 7:42:46 PM
I am a newer Nascar fan since 2002.
I have been waiting for someone to address the issues with the sport but it seems to me that everyone involved has turned a blind eye. It seems like they do not care enough to say something. When the ones that care, do say something, they are told to shut up and drive.
How long are they going to think that we fans will accept that joke of a car they call the COT. The 'Crab on Roller-skates' presents very little if not no racing.
I can put together a cardboard box that cost 1000 times less than the cost of the COT and it will present better racing that the product on the race track on Sundays.
Nascar racing is not IROC, it is not the IRL, it is not F-1. Why are we aspiring to be like these forms of racing when we truly had something special with the old car? All it needed was 2 pieces of 2X4 on the sides for safety. Now they've asked teams to triple spend on a dinosaur that will take maybe 10 years to develop/evolve.
Does this make sense? In 10 years who knows how many fans will still be around.
Another aspect of the sport that hurts the overall product is the desire and passion of the drivers. If a driver is content running 15th for his entire cup career then he deserves to be fired. If he lets another driver win when he clearly could lay the bumper then he should be fired. If a driver pulls aside to give another guy the spot then he should be fired. To many of these guys are in rides just for a pay check and riding along with no desire to win.
He is not a racer just a driver. Anyone can be a driver but not anyone can be a racer. This lack of passion from competitors alarms me as a fan. I listen to the radios and most of these guys sound depressed. Frankly I do not blame them. I would be depressed and disenchanted if I had no chance of winning a race before the green flag waved.
Also Car owners get some racers with talent in these race cars. I am so sick of these drivers riding along with no clue on how to race. This degrades the overall racing product.
The market appeal for the average Nascar fan is troubling. It seems to me that the people in charge of marketing this great sport are clueless what the fans want. They throw a set of vanilla good guy drivers at us , then a bunch of spoiled rich kids. How does this demographic appeal to the average race fan? Go back to Earnhardt Sr. he represented and appealed to the average race fan. The guys Nascar is shoving down our throats do not. We want hardcore real racers not back flipping phonies.
People look for all excuses of why things are going south with Nascar racing. That the races are too long, that they need a new points system, the tracks etc. These do not warrant changes because with change there is certainly alienation. Fix the product and things will work out.
Lastly, The powers in charge of Nascar need an overhaul. They've obviously let the mighty dollar cloud every inch of rational and common judgment when it comes to the best interest of the sport. Giving sponsors, manufacturers and certain owners more power only hurts the racing product. How is domination and dynasties good for today's Nascar? When there are so many different racers that diversely appeal to fans? That worked 20 years ago but it certainly does not work now. It only bores us fans to death knowing the outcome of a season, who makes the chase and who wins the championship.
Whether Bruton is the answer it remains to be seen.
Posted by: Concerned Nascar fan | Nov 6, 2008 7:47:14 PM
Memo to Bruton: If by any chance you do get to buy NASCAR, patch up your differences with Humpy and let him run it!!!!!!!
Posted by: Peter | Nov 7, 2008 7:40:22 AM
Why people think Bruton Smith is this genius promoter and businessman is puzzling, since his tracks are hideously opulant - ISC's tracks may not have the bells and whistles, but they don't need them, because hese are racetracks, not racertainment venues - and his business acumen, while genuine and successful, is nonetheless overrated - it was Richard Howard who made Charlotte; Bruton poached it out from under him; ever since he took over Atlanta it has not gotten any better as a racetrack; all his tracks have been screwed up by him with his rebuilds and levigating charades.
"He has ideas on how to get people into the seats." I don't buy that, because his tracks don't sell out anymore, and at least some of his attendences are padded by corporate bulk-buys from his other companies; it's something Chicagoland and Fontana pull off as well.
Over the last 18 years there have been almost no memorable races at his tracks - the 600s of 1993 and '95 were good; Atlanta in 1999, 2000, and 2002 saw some good racing; the National 500 of 2000 was stunningly competitive; but other than that it's been mediocre a best at his tracks.
Wayne in Tustin, CA, the only hope for Fontana (and a lot of other tracks) is to make it a restrictor plate track, something Zucker recommended back in February.
Concerned NASCAR Fan, the example of Earnhardt Sr. is not a good one because he was hated more than loved; it wasn't until his death that suddenly he becomes martyred as "one of us" when he never really was. But your overall point about drivers being marketed to the sport is a legitimate one. You're especially correct about the modern racer's seriousness about winning; it simply is not there.
A substantial part of it is tied to the poor raceability of the cars, the problem of which the COT is a huge part. The old car needed the plates, a bigger rear spoiler with one-inch lip on top, and a roof wicker for massive draft-inducing drag, all of which would solve the aeropush problem by making diry air pull railing cars forward, would thusimprove ability to pass, and would improve safety by slowing the cars down.
CalifCarl, those short races you mention were almost always on short tracks, and the sport outgrew them by the early 1970s. 500 milers have always been the norm; Michigan used to run 500 miles, and why Fontana runs 500 but Michgan only 400 is mystifying. The races aren't too long; it's the lack of ferocity in the racing that's the problem.
In addition to major changes to the cars, the sport needs to drop the Chase contrivance and revert to the old Latford Point System, but with 125 bonus points for inning the race and 100 bonus points for mostaps led; this maks the championship mathematially impossible without both winning and leading most laps, hich mans drivers will have no choice but to go for the lead no matter what lap it is.
Certainly Brian France and his yes-men cannot be trusted, but Bruton Smith can't, either.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Nov 7, 2008 11:53:38 PM
There were alot of folks at Texas, the backstretch wasn't full at all, not even close to full! There were not alot of vendors out like usual, the tent section, which is generally totally full, when you drive in to the Speedway, all you can see is Tents and then RV's beyond them, the tents were just not as many! I parked in VIP but the "pasture parking" wasn't even crowded like it generally is! It was rather eeeeery! It was a strange feeling! That was my feelings anyway..... I do understand about the bigger venues, Texas holds more, so even though not full, you've still got way over 100 thousand folks there, but still a far cry from the 250 thousand that were used to seeing! I do think the COT has alot to do with it and the prices of everything going up so much! I still love my racing but it's not as exciting as it was and I CAN miss a race now where I would have NEVER done that in the past!
Posted by: Darlene | Nov 9, 2008 10:33:45 AM
Hey Trent,
Good write!
Good to hear from some new Lugs. Annd, maybe some old ones with new names. Glad to hear some like-minded comments.
Part of Bruton's charm is that he is Not Nascar. He provides competition that is a race of it's own. Going from Daytona to the first Texas race was a great picture of what Nascar or ISC has to compete with. The facility at Texas is top notch, which is the only way they do it in Texas. I shared my experience with the "home" office and suggested that the price of the fans experience has gone up. I meant, bathroom facilities, monitors at concessions, wider stairwells, parking....you get my drift. Well, they raised ticket prices even more.
It just breaks my heart. Sorta like the family member that you can't help no matter how hard you try.
While I understand the need and desire to grow, the greed just pisses me off.
It is still my favorite entertainment, with a "provisional" for Gator football.
Posted by: Larry | Nov 9, 2008 1:19:04 PM
If you add points to the old system, is it really the old system?
Posted by: Larry | Nov 9, 2008 1:22:01 PM
Larry, how is Texas "top notch?" Because it has bells and whistles? We don't need that.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Nov 9, 2008 4:07:03 PM
Even in bad times you could sell out N. Wilkesboro and the Rock? HUH? Do you even remember back that far. They both had great racing and great tracks but they could NOT SELL OUT. No where near it. And yes that area was going through "bad times". But the sport itself was not.
As for......keep on growing NASCAR...NO! Just keep it good racing and safe. Way too much money being thrown at the sport and sponsors aren't going to be knocking down doors, to get inside, unless the dollar amounts creep downward. There is a breaking point for everything and NASCAR's gluttony has found it. Way too much technical stuff going on with race teams that doesn't need to be there. Way too much personnel for each team, way too many frills and perks.
I followed the sport and went to many races from 1971 thru 2004. I was a diehard fan. No more of my money goes to NASCAR or anything associated with it. They burned their bridges with me with insane rules changes. As far as I am concerned it can sink I would not miss it. Sure I still watch the races but only partially. I tune into about 30 laps worth. The start, the middle and the end. Way too much TV coverage and hype and over 2-3 hours each race day of pre-race hype! Ridiculous!
Posted by: David | Nov 10, 2008 10:58:28 AM
Great post, glad to see an insider sees what we see and feel. The crowds ARE down, especially out west, because the racing sucks there. Too much money involved, but we can't go backwards on that. Drivers don't race hard, because theres too much risk in that. Can't take a chance on tearing up the rolling billboard, not when we already got 10 mil in the bank. The bigger tracks are boring as hell, the drivers are rude as hell, unless a camera is rolling, and the old-time fan is not important any more, just the suits up in the suites. Maybe it has to fall apart before we can build it back up again. Build more Richmonds, Bristols, and make Disneylands out of California,Pocono, etc.
Posted by: Clay | Nov 10, 2008 4:50:25 PM
The sport has to go backwards before it will go forward. This economic climate is a way of fixing racing. It may not be as evil as we think it will be.
The COT was indeed a huge step backwards IMO.
When Nascar racers start racing for a $1000 dollar paycheck with plain white hoods then we will see real racing.
When all the business men go away and real racers start owning teams then we will see what we saw back then (hardcore racing).
Nascar diluted racing and the element of fear and thrills when they made that COT for safety. Back then drivers only cared about racing and risked their lives now we have a set of punks that scream at the wheel. If you're a racer man up.
Send these kids to school and put real men in these race cars.
Posted by: Concerned Nascar fan | Nov 10, 2008 8:00:03 PM
Clay, Richmond, Bristol, and Martinsville are dreadful. The sport is about superspeedways - it needs more Poconos, not more Bristols. Make plate tracks out of the bigger tracks if you must.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Nov 12, 2008 12:18:49 PM
MIKE, I THOUGHT YOU DIDN'T CARE ABOUT NASCAR ANY MORE
Posted by: Daniel cable | Nov 12, 2008 8:39:06 PM
daly
your posts are like a broken record same thing over and over and over
please go away or come up with something new to say
Posted by: Phyllis | Nov 13, 2008 9:45:07 AM
Phyllis, you're in no position to tell anyone anything. Either offer something of substance or shut your trap. Bbroken record? It's called the truth, lady. Shape up or shut up.
Daniel cable, you read wrong.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Nov 13, 2008 6:40:43 PM
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