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August 27, 2006
All due respect, but Bristol is overrated
By DAVID GREEN
This will be considered heresy by many NASCAR fans, especially the 160,000 or so who regularly fill the massive grandstands at Bristol Motor Speedway. But lately, racing at the half-mile concrete bowl is about as bad as it gets in NASCAR.
There is no track, anywhere, oval, road course, whatever, that is more single-groove than Bristol has become. Get out of the groove, either by your own miscue or with the help of somebody else's front bumper, and you are toast. The freight train that will rumble past on your left is every bit as bad as the better-known ones at Talladega Superspeedway. You get back in line only when the caboose goes past.
The only way you pass somebody on the outside at Bristol is when you are prohibitively faster than they are.
In terms of honest, driver-versus-driver battling, the best action of the weekend was in Istanbul, not Bristol (to steal a lyrical idea from songwriter Jimmy Kennedy). Sunday's Turkish Grand Prix was a much more entertaining race than Saturday night's Sharpie 500.
If you count freight-train passes as one, rather than as individual overtakings, and adjust by numbers of cars in the field (22 F1 cars, just more than half the NASCAR-standard 43), the Formula One race probably had more changes of position on the track in 58 laps than were seen at Bristol in 500 laps.
I can hear Keith Ott doing his John McEnroe impersonation now ("You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!"). Ah, but yes, Chief. I'm serious.
Apologies to the folks at Speedway Motorsports Inc. and especially BMS publicist Wayne Estes, a truly good guy who once gave me $20 after he and some other colleagues had enjoyed a great night of poker at the expense of yours truly. That was the one and only time I've played cards for money in the past 30 years. Wayne had the primary beneficiary of my losses, and as I was very close to broke, I accepted his rebate.
But the fact is, as speeds have increased, Bristol has changed from a track where heated competition was as good as it gets to today's low levels. Once upon a time, drivers could race three-wide in three-way fights for position, battles in which nobody had a clear advantage strictly based on how far away his car was from the outside retaining wall.
Yes, yes, I know -- everything changes. Everything, that is, except the hype about Bristol. Now, it is the track where speeds are breathtakingly fast and crashes happen in an eyeblink's time, but where actual fighting for position is all but gone. Nowhere is the "bump and run" more of an effective tool. And, even on the occasions in which a driver gets inside position cleanly, on entrance to a corner, his job is done. Unless the competitor slams the door and takes one or both of them out of the action, the pass is automatic once inside-outside position is determined.
Sure, the sparks fly. Of course, tempers flare. That's because of frustration and the kind of misbehavior it breeds. The masses eat it up. Of course, we could probably sell tickets to plane crashes, too, if we could only predict when and where they were going to occur.
In one respect, Bristol is the perfect track for many -- perhaps most -- of NASCAR's present fan base. It can be a glorified demolition derby, and that's always fun to watch if wrecks are what you want to see. And, as a Cingular poll suggested during Saturday night's broadcast, a majority of fans think the B&R is a legitimate overtaking maneuver.
Those of us with longer memories recall when the action at Bristol truly was "racing like it oughta be."
August 27, 2006 | Permalink
Comments
David Green,
First, I'm honored to be the "Standard of opposition," but, it just isn't applicable this time. While I did not see the Istanbul race this fan was less than impressed with Bristol. A one groove, bump to pass, cautionfest has absolutely nothing to do with racing skills. There used to be more skill involved at Bristol. And, while I'm sure the 160,000 at the track were entertained, what they got was WWF on Wheels vice a real Race.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 27, 2006 12:01:03 PM
First of all, congratulations to Felipe Massa's on his first F1 career win at the Turkish Grand Prix. Granted he didn't get a lot of camera time, but the race for second between Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher was worth sitting and watching a second time. Not to mention all the “action” behind them. Thankfully it’s not another three weeks before the next race. Now on to Italy!!!
I was wondering who would be the first to comment about the lack of racing Sat. night and the wreck-fest on Fri.
Bristol used to be one of the races I planned to SIT and watch every lap. Granted I didn't get up and do anything last night, but I did "take a nap" somewhere after halfway and woke up with less that 100 to go. I can’t believe I actually thought the race at California might be better than Bristol. UGH!
They kept comparing "today's racing" with that of winners such as Allison, DW, etc. and also kept making a point of saying they did it without power steering. Is that the only thing that made the racing in the 70s and 80s better than today? I think not.
One driver (can’t remember who) commented that BMS should "black top" the surface, that there wasn't any grip.
It was mentioned a few times that the surface will be “re-paved” after the spring race next year." Is that another concrete surface or asphalt? Will either help?
If you missed F1 but want to see another good race, turn on Speed. . .if you're reading this between 3 & 6 p.m. Sunday. I'm watching the Rolex Sports Car Series at Infineon Speedway (while keeping an “eye” on Ernesto.) I don't think it will beat Istanbul, but it's been fun so far.
And finally, if Benny Parsons is reading this. . .it was great having you back in the booth. I sure did miss you! Take care of yourself and please know that there are a lot of fans out here keeping you in their thoughts and prayers!
David, great piece and thoughts. Now if TPTB will only pay attention.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 27, 2006 4:08:25 PM
Keith, well stated. It takes very little talent to knock your competition out of the way, and I think we see more of the B&R at Bristol than anywhere else.
Shirley, so many little things have changed besides the surface of the Bristol track -- tires, shock-absorber technology, innovations in chassis engineering. It all adds up to faster and faster speeds, and the faster you go, the narrower the preferred line becomes.
What to do about this dilemma? I really don't know. All the steps intended to slow cornering speeds seem to be overcome by creative chassis and tire engineers before the ink is dry on the tech bulletins announcing them.
A drastic step would be to rebuild the corners of the track with a form of graduated banking similar to Homestead-Miami Speedway. If we make that low groove about a 30-degree bank, the middle groove about 33 and the upper groove the present 36, that might -- I emphasize, MIGHT -- help. But such a thing would be a monumental investment for SMC.
Posted by: David Green | Aug 27, 2006 4:22:19 PM
I wondered about the progressive banking, but didn't know if that would work on such a small track.
There's no doubt it made the difference at H-M. I went one year BEFORE progressive banking and swore I'd never go again. When I realized what a positive result it was, I got tickets the next year and have been going ever since.
And let me tell you. . .watching it on television does not do it justice. Actually "seeing" the cars on that track is amazing. Even beats Daytona, and I thought I'd never say that.
Maybe the COT will help. But is it a good idea to have Bristol as the first race with the COT? Guess we've got a 50/50 chance!
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 27, 2006 5:02:24 PM
Crazy OLD MEN! I don't watch the Bristol races on TV...because I'M there! it is far better in person, with a scanner, Television CANNOT do any justice for the race when you have 43 cars doing sub 15-16 second laps, as far as passing kenseth passed on the OUTSIDE for the win Friday, and Saturday was relativly caution free! I raced a track in Wisconson called Slinger Speedway www.slingersuperspeedway.com and I vowed if I ever get thru this night and can get the car BACK in the trailer that I'd start going back to church and never try something so foolish! Lots of drivers like Bristol, Rusty, Mark, Dale Sr and Jr, Matt, the one who don't cannot get a feel for the track or miss the set up completely Mr Kahne was at a loss as to what the car needed I find Bristol far more entertaining than say Pocono, Michigan or New Hampshire! After the Coca-Cola 600 I don't turn a race on 'til The Brickyard BUT even that has lost it's aura and then Bristol, then pick it up from Richmond on! I have heard about it being repaved in concrete...It was SUPPOSE to be this year starting now because they didn't schedule the "Stock Car Nationals" this year beause of the repaving! Ashpalt won't do beause of the HP these guys lauch outta the corners with!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 27, 2006 6:43:35 PM
#5, my comments were not limited to the television audience. Sure, as Shirley pointed out, the spectacle is a bigger deal if you're there in person. That goes for every track, not just Thunder Valley.
Also, I didn't say there were no passes on the outside at Bristol; I pointed out that there were no passes of an equal or nearly equal competitor on the outside. If somebody's handling has sufficiently deteriorated, sure, you can pass him on the outside. You pass lapped cars all night long on the outside. But as far as dueling with somebody else in equal equipment, Bristol is a one-groove track and the only way around is on the bottom.
The action may be compelling because of the intensity produced by high speeds and close quarters, but a race at Bristol is every bit as much of a single-file parade as any other race on the schedule.
Posted by: David Green | Aug 27, 2006 7:29:31 PM
Hey David,
Have not been to B, but it has to be a great show. Wondered about the fumes? Just couldn't let ya slide on this one. I still very much look foreward to the B races. As far as the groove is concerned, nothing is worse than NH. The 500 laps at the bowl are cool because of the multiple senarios that unfold. Pit strategy. The ultimate "do I pit", take 2, or stay out. Fun to watch knowing the different agenda's and definitions of victory. One of the few tracks that do not look like it would be fun to actually drive. The drivers earn their $$.
Hope that they stay with the concrete. I think that B should be in the chase instead of NH.
It's ok for you to miss one, now and again.
Posted by: Larry | Aug 27, 2006 8:43:17 PM
Larry, I've lost track of how many times I've been to Bristol, and yes, the races there are usually exciting, because of the number of wrecks and the Flavian Amphitheater (Roman Colosseum) atmosphere that goes with that. But I remember when the track was multi-groove, and the racing was much better then than now; nobody's fault, merely the old progress thing.
A good comparison would be a couple of high-banked asphalt half-miles in the Hoosier state, Salem and Winchester. These are truly bad, mean racetracks. Bristol is fast and furious, but Salem and Winchester are monsters. They just don't get the hype Bristol does, and I think the hype has become outdated.
Lest anyone misunderstand, I'm not lobbying for Thunder Valley to be removed from the circuit. I like the variety of tracks that we have, and in fact wish we had more of them instead of the schedule as it now exists, with double visits to many tracks.
Sure would like to see the current crop of Cup stars try their hand at Salem or Winchester, where the pavement of choice is asphalt -- a couple of decades old, and rough as a cob.
Posted by: David Green | Aug 27, 2006 9:41:09 PM
David,
Maybe we restrictor plate 'em and do progressive banking or redo it in ashphalt. What moron decided Bristol was the place to debut the car of tomorrow? What, they wanted to see how strong the noses were, or maybe how high the wing would fly off?
Posted by: Keith | Aug 28, 2006 1:43:00 PM
Well Keith, Better Bristol than Talladega or Daytona where it's likely to become a "deadly weapon" when one comes screaming into the stands! At least at Bristol speeds it'll only maime someone! and not Decapitate em
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 28, 2006 1:58:43 PM
OK, I know it is now Monday and the race was Saturday but I now can see the keys well enough to type. Had some friends over after a LONG day on the golf course to watch the race and even I saw that the racing wasn't that great. I might have even thought it more if I wasn't seeing 86 cars on the TV instead of 43.
Posted by: Mark | Aug 28, 2006 3:35:17 PM
Well Mark, it sounds like you had more fun than any of us! ;-)
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 28, 2006 5:58:37 PM
#5,
I was thinking a Pocono or Fontana where the racing has sucked or a 1.5 somewhere. How do you evaluate scrunchy noses and wings? They chose Bristol for it's high TV ratings added to all the fans wanting to see the COT so they can say the COT drew umpty% of the ratings
Mark,
Use the convergence adjustment on the set it focuses thingys. That or another beer works. Or try this one, say, "Housewench get me a beer dammit!NOW!" The frying pan does wonders for the eyesight.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 28, 2006 6:57:10 PM
Hey Speak for your selves I was at the track Wednesday, Friday and Saturday...with a suprise concert by Dirks Bentleym and MY favorite Travis Tritt...suprise cus I didn't know about it!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 28, 2006 7:24:31 PM
someone got it right! Bristol SUCKS!!
Posted by: BILL | Aug 29, 2006 10:29:29 AM
Over-rated Bristol? Please... Sell me your tickets. I never have enough tickets to go around (Bristol's budget for marketing Cup tickets is zero).
I have attended 6 Cup races in 2006 (just like prior years) and Bristol is core to my schedule. Someone writes this article every year. I will match a week at Bristol versus any track and Bristol will win!
Attending practices at BMS, can offer more enjoyment than some races at other tracks. If you have been to BMS Cup practice, you know...no garages at BMS = all cars on pit row and communication is limited to headsets due to noise on pit row. You can see every driver, crew chief and crew members on pit row. Old School! Racin' the way it ought'a be!
Posted by: Norman | Aug 29, 2006 10:35:09 AM
Norman, between you and #5, it seems obvious that being AT Bristol is the way to go. Cuz it was rather boring watching on TV.
Bristol is still one of the tracks I want to visit, and if I ever do, I might learn to appreciate it again.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 29, 2006 11:23:13 AM
Bristol is unique and provides variety to a schedule that increasingly has less of it. It may only be one groove but so is Martinsville. The competition has just gotten better is all.
For my money I'll always take a one-groove short track race over a restrictor plate race.
Posted by: KurtMan | Aug 29, 2006 11:49:27 AM
Probably 90% of the short-tracks in the country are one groove race tracks. To me watching drivers attempt to set up a clean pass on a "one groove" short-track is some of the most intense moments you'll see. Am I correct in saying the Alonso/Schumacher battle didn't actually include a pass?
Posted by: Scott | Aug 29, 2006 12:24:05 PM
I've been saying for years that Bristol is overrated. In fact I think it's always been overrated. Back in the day, how many races ended with only a handful of cars on the lead lap? I've seen races on ESPN classic where a guy would be 3 or 4 laps down and finished in the top 10. What makes that a great race? And today with the close competition and concrete surface, Bristol is nothing but a one groove track that makes more for demolition derby than racing.
The fans like Bristol because of the wrecks. Well that just shows what's wrong with Bristol. It's not about the racing it's about the wrecks. I for one, don't find a wreck fest to be exciting. I'll take the multigroove, actual racing and passing at Richmond, as opposed to 500 laps of bumping and wrecking at Bristol. Yes Saturday didn't have much bumping or wrecking and that's why so many are saying it was a boring race. Again, that's what's wrong with Bristol and that's why it's overrated. It's only exciting because of the wrecks and if there aren't many wrecks then the race is boring because it's so tough to pass. Richmond is the best racing on the circuit, not Bristol.
Posted by: Ken | Aug 29, 2006 1:43:33 PM
David,
First off I've been going to stockcar races (not all NASCAR) since I was 3 years old. And most have been at my local short track. I never even knew there were any tracks larger than 1/2 miles until I was 12 years old. MOST short tracks are one groove. I haven't seen many that aren't. And the B&R DOES take skill if performed right. Most of these new kids in NASCAR never cut their teeth on Short Track, stockcar, beaten' and banging racing. They ran the little sissy open wheeled cars where if you touch your car falls apart. So, they don't know how to do the B&R properly. When done properly nobody gets wrecked. They get loosened up, but not wrecked. The problem isn't the cars, it's the drivers. They don't know how to run short tracks. I dare you to show me a short track anywhere in the world where the B&R isn't used. It's part of short track racing. Always has and always will.
Posted by: SPD | Aug 29, 2006 1:53:38 PM
Tru Dat Norman! Bristol...the night races are the core of my race schedule, followed by Lowes "Speed weeks" I'm trying to aqueeze Darlington and Atlanta in also...HOWEVER I am NOT of a fan of ISC/France family tracks...I was in Jacksonville for school a few teays back and wanted a SINGLE ticket for the Daytona 500...I sat in line for almost 2 hours and couldn't figure out why some folks where going away angry...when it was MY turn I asked for a Ticket ($92.00 on Daytona Website) when the "blue hair" pointed her bony finger at a sign that said tickets to the Hershey's kisses 250 and Daytona 500...$193.00...can't buy a single ticket, SO I flipped her off (DearLord I apologise..) and when I got out of shool that Friday I "Qualified" my way back to Hickory to watch the last half of the Truck race and i have vowed NOT to attend an ISC race...I know I know Darlington...I BETTER be able to get a single ticket or someone ELSE is gonna get "Bird"!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 29, 2006 3:23:46 PM
In my humble opinion, the one and ONLY reason Bristol has become boring is SO HAVE the drivers.....I never in my life thought I would ever see drivers at Bristol PULLING over to let people by. The drivers seem to be in the mindset that racing to win dont matter....only the championship....sponsors dont want their drivers getting mad, saying anything other than how great it is to be sponsored by whoever.....the announcers (NBC especially) are a joke....tv needs another Bud (the announcer, not the beer)and leave the WWF antics for someone else.(Speed)
I would spend a day at the ballet to know just what Dale sr. would have thought of Jr pulling over and letting Shrub go by him...20 yrs ago that was un-heard of!!
Guess I need to face facts.....it aint grand-daddys nascar anymore....but there is hope....John Force just took the points lead in NHRA!
Posted by: billy | Aug 29, 2006 4:11:45 PM
THE COCERAGE SUCKS!! NOT BRISTOL. I SPEND HALF MY TIME TRYING TO LOOK AT THE VERY CORNERS OF THE TV. BECAUSE TV SUCKS. ALL THEY DO IS SHOW THE LEADER. NOT PASSING ANYONE.
SO FOR ANYONE WHO THINKS BRISTOL SUCKS....QUIT WATCHING NASCAR. GO BACK TO WHERE EVER IT IS YOU CAME FROM. THAT's WHATS WRONG WITH NASCR TODAY...ALL THESE STUPID PSEUDO FANS!!!!!
Posted by: jesse | Aug 29, 2006 5:14:43 PM
I thought it was a pretty good race. Life-alterng? No. A NASCAR race, featuring some points racing, a necessary evil in the era of the stupid chase. (And remember, there was points racing before the chase too.)
I was lucky enough to go to a race at Bristol last year, when Keith's man Harvick won and my man Jeff got T-boned by Kurt Busch. Now I haven't been to all that many races, but the only experience to match it was my first car race - Indianapolis 1967.
Posted by: Doug | Aug 29, 2006 6:13:38 PM
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