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August 23, 2006
Change the names and it's still the same
EDITOR'S NOTE: Shirley Buttacavoli is back, and like a lot of us is still scratching her head over some of last weekend's activities at Michigan and the resultant response out of the big offices in Daytona Beach, Fla.
By Shirley Buttacavoli
I have to say, I am very surprised no one has posted anything regarding the "penalty" NASCAR gave Carl Edwards after Saturday's incident with Dale Jr. And I'm sure someone is already saying: But she's a Dale Jr. fan. Then you also know how I feel about Kurt Busch.
So let's substitute Kurt for Jr. and say it was Kurt Busch who spun Carl Edwards for the win. And then Carl Edwards slammed Kurt Busch on the cool down lap. I would still feel the same. What Carl did was totally uncalled for, no matter who was involved.
When I read that Carl Edwards was given a $20,000 fine and placed on probation until the end of the year, I thought to myself: "That's it?"
Kevin Harvick did a cat-like leap over the rear of a Busch car, grabbed Greg Biffle's driver's suit and the two had a very "close" discussion, with Kevin doing most of the talking.
Can't remember if Kevin was warned or fined by NASCAR, but not long after he then had another "altercation" on the track during a truck race. NASCAR sat him out for a Cup race.
More recently, Jeff Gordon pushed Matt Kenseth on pit road after a race when Kenseth seemed to be walking toward Jeff to apologize. (I don't even remember what happen on the track. I just loved seeing Jeff finally having some human emotion.) I believe Jeff received a fine, but I do remember he was put on probation for a short period of time.
And who can forget Jr's post-race interview in Victory Lane when asked how he felt about winning his fifth race at Talladega, and Jr. - in his most ecstatic and thrilling tone of voice said: "that ain't sh*t – daddy did it 10 times."
Jr's use of the dreaded "s-word" cost him dearly. Not only monetarily, but with the loss of valuable points needed to be part of The Chase. Everyone knew what to expect – except Jr. – as soon as he said it. Thanks to two Busch drivers using the same word previously, although in a negative fashion, NASCAR deemed it necessary to take the same "action" against Jr.
Back to Jeff and Matt. . .there were no vehicles involved and I don't believe anyone's life was a stake, However, there WAS a vehicle involved on Sat. at MIS, and Carl basically received the same "penalty" as Jeff.
And back to Kevin Harvick sitting out a Cup race. . . I'm not saying Carl should sit out a race in any series However, the events that occurred are more closely related to those by Kevin than that of Jr. and/or Mat and Jeff.
Jr’s “incident” in Victory Lane did not involve a vehicle, another individual, or any intent on inflicting pain on anyone. He was happier than shi*t!
If you look at the fines and penalties that have been given out, it seems Jr. received the most severe of all, for being happy, not mad. So when I said: “that’s it?” I was thinking of people using words, and physical actions - anything but a vehicle - and received fines and penalties MUCH worse than Carl Edwards received.
Plus I thought Carl was already on probation for spinning Tony Stewart on pit road, when Tony inadvertently wrecked Carl. Once again a vehicle was used, and a number of individuals could have been injured.
I guess this all comes down to NASCAR and their lack of consistency throughout the sport. I understand that not all rules are suited for all individuals. But someone needs to explain to NASCAR what “detrimental to the sport” really means. (David????)
BTW, if Mark Martin hasn’t already had a talk with Carl, I hope he does, and he does it soon. I also think Kenny Schrader needs to sit Cousin Carl down and explain the facts of life –and racing – to him. Just like Tony Stewart – the kid has talent, now he needs to use it wisely.
OK, that’s my opinion. . .let me have it!
August 23, 2006 in Racing | Permalink
Comments
Great post Shirley
My thoughts are how Nascar can act like nothing serious could have happened to the driver no matter who that driver is.
Had the positions been reversed I don't think the reaction would have been the same.
Somebody could have got seriously hurt.Also how about all the fans via tv seeing a serious action of road rage being swept under the rug.
Posted by: trucker | Aug 23, 2006 8:24:11 PM
Shirley said.......Plus I thought Carl was already on probation for spinning Tony Stewart on pit road, when Tony inadvertently wrecked Carl.
Well guess what, you thought wrong! I did the research. Carl (or Tony) was not on probation for their antics at Pocono.
Carl was absolutely wrong to use his car in anger but he was in the right to be totally ticked off at Jr. Jr did what he felt he needed to do for the win and that is ok too. I do enjoy the race ending altercations though!
Posted by: KS 24-48 | Aug 23, 2006 9:57:06 PM
KS, thank you for correcting my statement.
As I mentioned - I didn't have time for "research." I thought someone mentioned on the TNT broadcast at MIS during the Busch race, that Carl was on probation.
Kinda thought Keith would have been here by now to let me know I mis-spoke.
But you beat him to it! Kudos! And thanks again.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 23, 2006 10:08:45 PM
bristol...too pooped to pop!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 24, 2006 2:37:19 AM
Ok slept 5 hrs...I watched Mark Martin last night in the"O'Reilly's 200 presented by Valvoline", and watched Mark "Move" people out of his way...sorta like a late great driver, Mark however will be the first to admit he wrecked someone and he like a TRUE champion will shoulder the blame...UNLIKE the rest of his "Thug" drivers sans Jaimie Mac...Remember Kurt Busch and Jimmy Spencer fiasco...Busch admitted to trying to "flatten" Spencer's fenders (an aerodynamic disadvantage)...Matts done it, The BIFF (I hate that name) has done it.
One thing I AM certain of...Is young Matt Martin will not do it! Well I'm off to Welcome! taking my peeps to RCR Museum, and then to Hendricks Museum in Comcord...Shut up guys ALL families have someone who rode the "Short Bus"...then Back n forth to Bristol Fri and Sat...will try to do "Turn 3" proud if I can...maybe Trackside live??? stay tuned!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 24, 2006 8:22:27 AM
Not that I agree with NASCAR, but the penalty to Carl does follow the precedent they set with Harvick (and some others) that the probation/fine comes first then the sit down. The fine was less I believe because it was a Busch race and they base them on the lower Busch purses.
Since Carl is now "On the leash," and NASCAR says a probation in one series is a probation in all NASCAR series, I doubt he's going to have much fun at Bristol. I hope it becomes "Lets Bump Carl Day" because he can't retaliate and he certainly wont be doing any paybacks.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 24, 2006 9:02:40 AM
#5, If I was visiting the Concord area, I'd include Hendrick as well. I'm sure there's a Ken Schrader car in there somewhere.
BUT. . .RCR and DEI would be first.
Have a fun and enjoy the races. I'll be looking for you on Trackside and during NASCAR Live as well.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 24, 2006 9:27:48 AM
The punishment is never on a level playing field. Pope Brian hands out penalties based on the weather in Daytona and what he had to eat that day. Using a car to get a point across is not cool. Whether Jr. did it on purpose or not is not in question, what Carl did was just plain stupid. what if he had hit Jr.'s hand while it was out of the car? He shouldn't have been benched for the weekend but the penalty should have been a little stiffer in my opinion.
Posted by: Mark | Aug 24, 2006 11:43:23 AM
Mark,
Can't put Cup fines/penalties on a Busch race...They stayed with their norms (sad as they are),but I would like to see tougher penalties outlined. You make the penalty big enough and you can stop anything...especially the non-racing car assault problems. Not that I like it but this was the right penalty according to their established rules.
Like I've said NASCAR needs to hire a Ret. General, Admiral or, of course, a Chief to police their rules. Hard, Fast and fair is how these guys work. Get one NASCAR, theres plenty that would love to help. Look for them on aisle 7 at Walmart next to the G.I. Joes and Combat Ready Barbies.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 24, 2006 12:19:26 PM
I like Keith's "Let's Bump Carl Day."
It might not be Indy, but "bump day" might mean something again!
I agree with you Mark. I also believe the penalty should have been “stiffer.” I still can’t believe they did not deduct any points. I don’t care if it was a Busch race.
I wonder if the fans at MIS that were booing Jr. would have changed their attitude if they saw a replay from the in-car camera, showing how severe Carl's actions could have been.
Another thought came to mind when I was sitting behind one of those beautiful, bright and shiny Budweiser delivery trucks a while ago. How would TPTB at Bud react if something happened to Jr. during a Busch race?
I read an article that Jr. stated Bud wanted him to be associated strictly with "Bud," thus the reason they probably agreed to sponsor a few Busch races in 2007.
And if Jr. was injured at MIS, who would have been the first from DEI or Anheuser-Busch contacting the Roush organization.
Someone would have had a lot of explaining to do!
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 24, 2006 12:24:17 PM
Shirley,
Why would Anheuser-Busch or DEI contact Roush? If there were legalities involved wouldn't they would go directly at NASCAR. Although, I guess if it was an illegal action (and I believe law enforcement does investigate these things) I suppose they could sue Roush and Carl...I mean OJ was innocent (cough, cough) and he got sued.
Why go there NASCAR? Grow some coconuts. Make'm the size of small watermelons...BE THE MAN!
New rule:
Post race; Any driver using his car post race in a manner deemed to be unsportsmanlike and potentially harmful to another driver(s) will be welcomed to the Red Trailer where his vacation plans for the next week can be discussed.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 24, 2006 2:38:57 PM
Keith, it was just a comment. I didn't mean it literally. Although who knows what would happen if Dale Jr. could not race due to someone else's stupidity.
If NASCAR can't figure out what "detrimental" means, (because everything seems to be detrimental to the sport) do you think they'd know what "unsportsmanlike" means.
However, a discussion of "vacation plans" in the Oval office (I thought it was yellow now) might start getting their attention.
I believe Chad Knaus "understands" now, along with a couple other crew chiefs. Maybe it's time to use it on the drivers as well.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 24, 2006 2:58:56 PM
To penalize Junior 25 points for using the S-word was utterly stupid, but NASCAR had imposed the same penalty on a Busch driver earlier in the year (I believe that it was Shane Hmiel), and they had to be consistent. No one knows what the rule is in this case, it just falls under something like "actions detrimental to NASCAR", which is totally subjective.
But this is hardly the first time I've seen a driver whack another car with his own. Kurt Busch did it to Jeff Gordon last year, Gordon did it to Ryan Newman, and I've seen it many other times go unpenalized. Junior's dad did it a few times too.
Posted by: KurtMan | Aug 24, 2006 5:59:27 PM
Kurtman,
When did Sr. bring his car back onto the track to do it? Racing paybacks are a far different thing than what Stewart and Edwards seem to excel in these days...I'd wait on that Sr answer but it's 0.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 24, 2006 7:02:09 PM
I like Keiths new rule ;-)
Posted by: Diane Sadler | Aug 24, 2006 7:20:03 PM
I don't think I ever saw Dale Sr. go back onto the track to do anything like that. Stewart and Edwards need to grow up!
Posted by: Diane Sadler | Aug 24, 2006 7:24:34 PM
lets leave Dale SR out of this, he wasn't here and if he was a lot of the sh"t going on would not be. Keith, I totally agree with your comment. Nascar has to grow some balls and make a stand. But you have to do it NOW before another incident so that every driver knows if you do THIS here is the penalty. Unfortunately nascar doesn't have the balls to back a sponsor in the corner.
Posted by: 328 | Aug 24, 2006 9:14:30 PM
I agree 328!
Posted by: Tbfka#5 | Aug 25, 2006 12:58:18 AM
I suppose they could have taken points from Edwards in the Busch Series. But, what would be the point of it? There's only 2 Drivers within 485pts of Harvick...20-25 pts who cares. Maybe Harvick, "Kenseths" Busch into going to a Chase format. LOL, if Harvick hits a Busch car illegally they will sit him for 2 races to make the points closer.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 25, 2006 10:45:44 AM
Taking points from Edwards would have sent a "standard" for a penalty.
What if it happens again during the season, but it's a Busch driver that does it. Should he have points taken away?
YES - they both should.
How much ya wanna bet that Harvick's point lead will create a "chase format" in Busch.
Which would be fine with me, cuz if they do it in one series, they should do it in all three (Trucks, Busch and Cup).
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 25, 2006 3:34:07 PM
Don't get your undies in a wad. The only penalty that will stop this is the vacation. Points deter nothing, and fines are absorbed by the corporation.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 25, 2006 5:27:25 PM
Hey Shirley,
Not mentioned yet so, Harvick said over his radio, " Gonna get him". Then did. So, the premeditation was there.
Nascar said something like,
- son, don't ever do that again
- We'll call it detrimental
- you have a real future here, wink wink &
pat on the back.
No, it probably would not have been the same result with Kurt.
Posted by: Larry | Aug 27, 2006 9:00:42 PM
Larry, thanks for the info.
Posted by: Shirley | Aug 28, 2006 2:20:11 PM
what did Nascar do robby gordon when he sailed his helment at the #15 car and that was just a helment not a 3600# car and $20000 is not enough
Posted by: kevin | Aug 31, 2006 8:57:07 PM
Kevin, I agree with you 100%.
Posted by: Shirley | Sep 1, 2006 11:22:56 AM
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