Subscribe to this blog's feed« King Of The Mountain; Matt Kenseth | Main | Just Shut Up With This FOX 3D Stuff »
February 26, 2007
Final Verdict C and Notes:
By Keith Ott
I’ve been sitting back and gathering inputs on what people thought about the race. Inputs from both here on TR and calls to friends. And, while I’ll personally never like the racing at Fontana, I can appreciate that some might. Thinking about it as a whole event, I’m giving it a C. It was a watchable event; it had moments, and will probably turn out to be right around the median as far as exciting/not so exciting events go for the season. Had the Harvick challenge played out at the end it might have gone to a low “B.” That was the best drama of the event and NASCAR probably wishes it had played out.
Notes:
1) Has NASCAR gone too far with the “Red” as well as the “Yellow?” The “Red,” in my book, is for serious injury or an incident so big that the workers would be put in jeopardy sorting things out. It isn’t meant for a green race to the finish. The driver, David Reutimann, was sore and out of the car (a poor finish but a great crash with a good ending) in good time…15 minutes was too long before they called that “quickie” yellow. Also, IMO if NASCAR stops an event for that period or any period of time, then all should be free to go to pitroad, do their thing and restart in the same order. No I stayed outs, no race off pitroad. All on and off pit road in the same order or merging back in the same order. So, then we have the “Special Yellow” to let cars pit. NASCAR said the tracks clear but there’s a special yellow for a quickie. NASCAR should have said we’re staying yellow for a GWC or going green and pitting is up to you. The Red flag is so serious it should never be used for us fans. It’s to save lives and any other use hurts its value…NASCAR influenced the event. JMO
2) NASCAR 3D…WTF (what the fudge…unless you’re Navy <wink>) was on their minds? Get the techno BS off the screen. I don’t care if you have GPS that tracks a gnats butt to within 3000 nanometers…If I wanted to see a video game telling me what you missed I could load up NASCAR 2006 with better graphics. Besides, for a second you had David outside the walls. I’m sure he’s glad his GPS was off.
3) “Commercials” and I’m not sure that this wasn’t just in my area. But, a spot for Toyota showing a map of Toyota’s 10.4 billion $ investment in the US was interrupted by a commercial for the TV show “24” showing an atomic bomb going off in LA with a mushroom cloud. It just struck me as rather strange that Toyota would take this approach to NASCAR. J/K Toyota…I for one welcome you.
4) And the last note goes to Doug in Cali. Who says, “Maybe it’s not a bad idea to make this a 400 mile event.” Doug, I don’t think it’s heresy, I concur. Especially if they kept the same time slot. We could see the WHOLE event and all the commercials. And, I hope Dave and Sharon return to Fontana (somebody has to…J/K) and continue to enjoy NASCAR.
Ok a few ????’s
Who painted the pace car like a Taxi? It took me 4 cautions to figure out it was a Monte Carlo.
Is Kyle Busch’s steering wheel loose or is he just fun to watch?
LOL, ok LV coming up…Which Busch gets the first ticket?
Your comments and Viva Las Vegas! A new track where anything goes…
February 26, 2007 | Permalink
Comments
I agree Keith, a "C" race. Not great, not terrible.
My answers:
1) Without the red flag, we finish under yellow or have a GWC. Some don't like one and some don't like the other. I suppose if you need to clean up the track and you don't want a great car to lose because of fuel mileage, then...of course, we're influencing the event now aren't we?
2) I agree...the 3-D was an integral part of what makes Fox's broadcasts utterly "stink" (unless you're Navy).
3) Yes, and have you noticed that the announcers are mentioning the manufacturers all of the time now? Whose idea was that?
4) 400 miles would be ok with me. But 500 is fine with me too.
Your last three questions: Kevin Costner, both, and whoever leaves the casino first.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Feb 26, 2007 6:15:12 PM
Kurt,
David might have been hurt since he didn't respond quickly so then the red, as soon as he was deemed ok it should go to yellow and a clean-up like any other accident. A full yellow until it runs into GWC. Red should never be used for us to see a green finish. Again, JMO.
Besides the bomb scene from "24," I noticed Toyota doing a lot of good commercials showing their value in America. It's a global economy and I welcome them to NASCAR. And yes, they seemed overly concerned that we hear Ford, Chevy, and Dodge...While at the same time extolling the contributions of Toyota. Dang, if I wouldn't have missed that them there cars were made in America if them smart fellers hadn't told me...shoot.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 26, 2007 6:49:25 PM
Note: I did mess up on the Busch tickets. Phoenix/Las Vegas both deserts. But, who can say Sheriff Joe doesn't have a long arm?
Posted by: Keith | Feb 26, 2007 7:06:26 PM
Hey Keith, I can't completely agree. I give this race a solid F. Sadly, Rockingham's gone and this is it's replacement?? Pathetic. This was easily one of the worst races I've ever watched, and will be the last I watch from California. The quicker this track goes under the better...
The phantom debris caution with 25 to go did nothing to help, that just put a huge artificial stamp on the finish. For the first time, I agreed with Jimmie Johnson and thought his "they throw a caution for debris, and I don't think they found the debris yet" comment was hilarious. He got screwed. Plain and simple, he certainly got screwed by NASCAR's phantom debris that wasn't really there.
They should really let these races play out naturally, and also letting the race go green to the end may have prevented Reutimann's bad wreck. Cautions breed cautions, and I doubt he's getting in that incident if you don't bunch everybody up for an exciting made for TV finish that didn't happen anyway.
Here's my ideal solution for California speedway: Shut it down. Bulldoze it. Have ISC buy Irwindale. Build 50,000 or so more seats at Irwindale, then move both Cali races there. We get two more short track races at an exciting track. The SoCal market keeps two races, and maybe races at Irwindale will actually sell out. And, while I'm dreaming, the Labor Day weekend race goes back to Darlington where it belongs. And that's what I've got to say about that...
Posted by: Joe C. | Feb 26, 2007 7:07:30 PM
I hope you don't mind Keith with the cut and past job. I am being very lazy tonight. You know how us Air Force guys are..LOL
remember reading something about California 500 being a snozefest. It was a exciting race. There was a lot of side by side racing and great battles. I didn't lose any interest in the race, other than that crappy Fox 3D thing. I felt race was excellent and the track has improved over last year.(A+) The commentary was OK. I am really tired of the hyped NEW Hollywood Hotel. GIVE IT A REST ALREADY! There were a lot times when they went to Hollywood Hotel that they should have kept the action on the track on the screen. I feel Fox is slipping in their broadcast. Too many toys and not enough play by play.(D) Overall the whole experience was Average(C). The race was great, but the broadcast took too much away from the experience.
Just want to add something here...TONY WOULD HAVE WON IF HE DIDN'T SPEED ON PIT ROAD! LOL
Posted by: WBinCC | Feb 26, 2007 7:11:01 PM
Joe C,
Can't make it an F. It will probably equal or better what we get at many tracks this year. Hmmm, why are ratings down. Brian, ponders.
Ugh, "phantom debris"...LOL 17 HD cameras and they can't find it. If they call it, I think we should see it. LOL, the NFL will stop the whole game to see if a toe was in. Are we worth less or just supposed to be more trusting?
Posted by: Keith | Feb 26, 2007 7:27:33 PM
WB,
LOL, I forgive you for being Air Force and this Sr. Chief salutes your service. So, interpreting AF, you liked the race but thought the TV and the Hotel went over the top when they had race to cover.
I got a whole new view of how California sees NASCAR or maybe how TV interprets how it should be presented to them, when they brought out food to the Hotel. The hotel got caviar, finger sandwiches etc. the good ol' boys in the booth got corndogs. Oh, yeah someone was trying to impress and at the same time joke on us ol' hillbilly fans.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 26, 2007 7:38:30 PM
Ok, "Phantom Debris." Some guy called it and they threw a flag. Why is there never verification? He had to see something, right? Or, did he take someones word who said he saw something? Certainly, it's never a friend of my friend said he saw something, is it? How many people can say they might have seen something and get a flag? I may have been born in NY but my heart is always in the "Show Me" State. Show us NASCAR!
Posted by: Keith | Feb 26, 2007 7:50:34 PM
Keith,
Fox has done everything possible to make things slick and glamorous. Someone should tell them that it is about the race not high tech toys. Truthfully, I waiting for DW to start adding his own sound FX to Fox 3D. WHAMO!
I think the Phantom Debris was a pin on the track...a small pin..a really really small pin.
About the food, you are what you eat. LOL
Posted by: WBinCC | Feb 26, 2007 8:15:27 PM
About the race. It was OK but, I too absolutely hated the Fox 3D, and Keith NASCAR 99 has better graphics that that clip art cut and paste pile of something that smells bad. The Hollywood Hotel needs to go too, its a race not an awards show. In closing, I would still rather see another short track race than boring strung out green flag runs and phantom debris.
Posted by: another joe | Feb 27, 2007 12:40:09 AM
Keith I think this is one time where NASCAR was right for throwing the red. The car, what was left of it, stopped on the track and with the haste of the safety workers to get there the track was pretty much blocked. Add all of the fluids and debris strewn out and it just made sense in my mind.
The FOX guys are all talking about manufacturers because I am sure the other three got sick of listening to DW yammer about Toyota and bitched.
Vegas will be a wrec-fest with single groove racing because of new asphalt. This race might be better than the next one. IMO.
Posted by: Mark | Feb 27, 2007 4:23:32 AM
A few more suggestions to Fox , as people are suggesting get rid of that FOX 3D shit , there's no point to it , why not just have more cameras , if I wanted to see an animation , I would thor won the movie cars , which by the way has much better graphics .
DW , Let Boogity , Boogity , Boogity go . I was okay the first time , bad after that and now it's to the point where it's totally retarded , SHUT UP and just call the race .
The Hollywood Hotel is still terrible and so is Chris Myers , get rid of that non-nascar guy .
Posted by: Eric | Feb 27, 2007 4:51:34 AM
Joe C. offered one of the best ideas I've heard in awhile -- Irwindale -- in a post that included more logic and common sense than NASCAR has demonstrated in a couple of decades. Joe and I disagree over the quality of entertainment of the California race, but in everything else he wrote, I concur 100 percent.
Posted by: David Green | Feb 27, 2007 4:53:39 AM
Mark,
Sick of DW period is more like it. Too bad he didn't fall or sit on his corndog. As for Vegas I like the fact that they're trying to make it better. Humpy didn't get Charlotte right the first try but he kept at it. That seems to be the attitude in Vegas.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 5:01:29 AM
Eric,
You're right. As far as computer graphics go, new isn't always better.
Use my Boogity blocking method...I mute the TV, cover my ears (in case there's a TV on the race in listening distance) and go lalalalalalalalala until they pass the start/finish. Just not hearing it makes the race start off on the right foot.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 5:18:24 AM
David,
Joe C was a bit low on the score but, other than that, he nailed it. How's this? We move 50,000 seats from California to Irwindale and split the races. Then they could both sell out!
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 5:20:19 AM
The guys calling the races should be heard and not seen. TV viewers tune in to "see" the action and who gives a crap about the Hollywood Hotel or who is in there. Benny Parsons, Buddy Baker and Barney Hall of MRN presented the facts, without pressing their own opinions. If I hear Boogity Boogity one more time I'll heave. There were a lot of empty seats in California...there will be more as the season progresses, except for Bristol. The graphics, toy cars, special effects, and commentary are the showmanship that racing does not require to be exiting.
It the race is a "sleeper" all the talk and razzle dazzzle won't change it. I know a parcel of land outside of Florence SC that would be a great expansion for NASCAR to build a super racing plant like they have proposed to the state of Washington...it is called Darlington. Think about where racing has "gone" since it "left" Darlington.
Posted by: Jim | Feb 27, 2007 6:03:20 AM
Bruton is working to make it better I agree totally. IT is just the nature of a new track to be single-grooved until the asphalts seasons and there is more time spent on it.
Posted by: Mark | Feb 27, 2007 6:07:14 AM
Joe C., the red flag has nothing to do with the track, nor does the phantom debris call. Those may well both show that NASCAR has some problems figuring out its own rules, but don't lay that on the track. As I have said, I enjoyed the race, but won't argue with Keith's C, which I thought was going to be a C+.
And I thought Kevin Costner's band was pretty good. It wasn't real imaginative or innovative, but I liked it enough to stand there for about 20 minutes.
Posted by: Doug | Feb 27, 2007 7:48:57 AM
I used to enjoy when explain certain terms with graphics. That is how my kids started to get interested in the race. They now know what most of the drivers are talking about when they said loose or tight condition. Now, that is something that should be done, so new fans can get the terminology. DW should be used for more the driver's perspective and cut down the humor. Talk about your experience in the car and less about your comedy ideas.
Posted by: WBinCC | Feb 27, 2007 7:49:51 AM
Hey Keith,
I visited David Greene's blog about changing the rules before comming here. Those comments woulda' fit better here.
But, I labled my comments "Going Barbarro". Thinking that complaining about coverage was beating the poor dead horse. When I got here I felt better. It wasn't just me, it was the broadcast.
Give the race a solid B, the broadcast a solid Dminus. The debris field was major so the red was a good call, unless you did want a GWC. Any graphics during green flag racing makes me squirm. The info they have to share is generally good, just not good timing. The 3D provides nothing of value to this viewer.
Posted by: Larry | Feb 27, 2007 9:22:20 AM
Did FOX have outside footage(not in-car) of Reutiman's crash? Nope. So why do we instantly throw NASCAR under the bus for so-called phantom debris? The TV crew misses things all the time. Maybe they missed it, maybe it is NASCAR, but, we don't know.
You even look at the carnage from Reutiman's wreck? The red was warranted with the mine field of debris he left behind. Race car kick a chunk of sharp metal up into a track worker that could get ugly. They are people too it isn't just about the drivers and your entertainment value. What's the difference? 15minute red-flag or 15 caution laps?
Posted by: Scott | Feb 27, 2007 10:18:51 AM
I thought this race was better than most I have seen at Fontana.There were empty seats but not as many.Last year there was huge empty sections.
Nascar uses the red,yellow,gwc to create excitement.True race fans do not need that,the racing is enough.
After reading all the comments,I still do not know what Fox 3D is!
Posted by: Short Lady | Feb 27, 2007 11:36:35 AM
Scott,
Someone saw debris and I'm not buying that they couldn't get a camera on it. Or, maybe, they could follow the truck that goes to get it. Ya think? And, stop with the bleeding heart, track workers are people too. I didn't say to go blazing through the debris, throwing caution to the wind. The driver was safe and I have seen bigger wrecks cleaned up faster.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 11:46:53 AM
Short,
Fox 3D was them showing computer generated cars (like in a PC game)supposedly positioned by gps tracking to emulate exactly what happened on the track. I suppose it's kind of neat technology but I don't believe GPS is accurate (civilian sector) to better than 30ft or so. Actually it looks like one of their guys in the control booth is playing NASCAR 2006 and they accidently swapped his monitor to the big screen.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 11:54:16 AM
On red flags - it wasn't a big deal; if anything they're almost the only thing NASCAR has going for it to make any kind of good racing. As for letting cars pit after a red - leave the rule as it is.
On reducing the distance to 400 miles - that's pure BS. 500 miles is always a better test of machinery and driving and always sees more swings in outcome than 400 milers. It's the Attention Deficit Disorder lobby that wants shorter races. Hell, those races that are presently 400 miles should be LENGTHENED to 500 - go back to 500 for Dover, 500 for Michigan, 500 for Indianapolis, 500 for Chicagoland, Kansas, and Homestead, and 500 for the Firecracker at Daytona.
Finally, we lost Rockingham, but Fontana is a better track all around.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Feb 27, 2007 12:02:48 PM
Oh......now I see.LOL
Thanks Keith!
Posted by: Short Lady | Feb 27, 2007 12:32:04 PM
Mike, way back in the old days, Riverside was a 500 miler! Average qualifying speed at that course was usually in the 105 range, so imagine a 500 mile race! Do you want them to run 500 miles at Martinsville, too? As for Fontana, I like 500, but it did run awfully long. It sure isn't a fight I care much about. Heck, dump the lucky pooch and make it 600 miles!
Having tweaked you on that, I'm glad we agree about Fontana - wide open, plenty of room for multi-groove racing.
Posted by: Doug | Feb 27, 2007 1:30:09 PM
How can you say Fontana is a better all around track thne Rockingham ? You are on some of Brian France's suck up pills .
Posted by: Eric | Feb 27, 2007 2:27:06 PM
I would love to hear (offlist) from anyone who has been to Irwindale. I have questions you can answer for me.
Posted by: Doug | Feb 27, 2007 2:50:10 PM
Eric, here's why -
Fontana - bigger, wider, more grooves, no issues with excessive tire wear. Rockingham - narrow, eats tires.
So yes, Fontana is a better track than Rockingham.
Doug, Riverside was 500 miles and nothing was solved when it went to 312 miles. Put Michigan, Indianapolis, etc. to 500 miles.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Feb 27, 2007 3:14:56 PM
Doug,
I agree that the red flag had nothing to do with the track. In fact, I think that Reutimann's crash was one of those cases where a red was warranted. That was probably one of the worst accidents that's happened in a while, and the track was partially blocked and needed cleaning. However, the phantom debris caution with 25 to go was thrown just so everyone got bunched back up for a close finish, in my opinion. I agree with Keith. They should be able to show the debris if they're gonna throw the yellow for it. Otherwise, it's certainly questionable and it changes the outcome of the race.
Yeah, neither of those have anything to do with the track (NASCAR throws debris cautions like that almost everywhere these days), but my rant against the track was because of how boring the race was. And it wasn't helped by how terrible the coverage was. Late in the race I wanted to scream because they had Myers and Hammond on screen while cars were racing under green on track. They spent several laps with those two buffoons talking instead of showing the race. And yeah, several of you guys have a point that the coverage was worse than the race. It certainly was. I just think that Fontana will never live up to the tracks that it has replaced in terms of good racing.
Posted by: Joe C. | Feb 27, 2007 3:27:49 PM
Mike Daly,
Neither is better...They have different characteristics. If Rockingham eats tires, so be it. The teams have to deal with that as a race factor. We could, I suppose take the track out of the event by building cookie cutter tracks...No wait, they tried that and even the "Cookies" seem to get their own personna.
Races back to 500 miles...Don't hold your breath. In fact expect more to drop to 400 miles. NASCAR isn't about what might be better racing, or what might be more apt to show the true performers. NASCAR is about TV$$$$'s. TV wants a new audience and excitement and NASCAR isn't delivering it. Ratings will be down again this year. Because the new fans are "Show me now reality show junkies" just how many do you think have the patience to appreciate 500 miles?
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 4:16:24 PM
Doug,
LOL, yeah plenty of room for racing if they could actually get close to each other (Yes Mike...wider tires a 7" spoiler and wickerbills). As it is, I've seen closer racing for a Walmart parking spot.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 27, 2007 4:25:47 PM
OMG!!! I can't believe anyone would say the racing at Fontana is better than Rockingham. That baby was a test of pure team racing. A driver that could turn a wheel and a crew chief that could make the right adjustments....Hate to say it Daly but you are way off on this one brother.
Posted by: Mark | Feb 27, 2007 8:19:58 PM
Mark,
That "other" site has a poll going. Where would you like to see an event added.
NYC
Montreal
Washington St.
Rockingham
Kentucky
Rockingham leads with Kentucky second...Proving that NASCAR fans are getting a bit tired of this foreign expansion and, that at home, traditional locations are far more important than places chosen for demographics.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 28, 2007 5:48:04 AM
Keith, I'm only replying to your original piece, because it looks like you have quite a few comments, and I'm sure they are all making excellent points.
Comparing this past Fontana Cup race to previous races in Fontana, I would actually give it a B. It had drama (Tony was certain he was 300 rpms under the speed limit); comedy (Jr’s bow after a sensational save); suspense (was David Reuitmann okay?); and it seemed to keep me entertained for most of the 500 miles. I only feel asleep once.
I agree that NASCAR is getting carried away with the yellow and the red, but in the case of Reutimann's crash, I believe it was necessary. Not only was his car on fire, but debris (and I mean real debris) was all over the track. And for a few moments, no one knew if David was okay or not.
The 3D graphic has to go. I believe it was Marty Snider that was defending it saying it was like a new computer, they have to get used to using it. I believe Fox has tried long enough and they need to move on to their next experiment. Between the commercials, the cut away car and all the graphics, the amount of time the actual race if broadcast is getting less and less.
But you won't have to worry about me running out and finding a way to copy the "taxi" paint scheme on my Monte Carlo. Intimidator black is just fine with me!
Well done Keith. Let's see what Vegas has to offer.
Posted by: Shirley | Feb 28, 2007 9:35:46 AM
Shirley,
Was that the Siskel and Ebert review of Fontana? Drama/Comedy/Suspense? I'm going with a C maybe with extra homework a C+
LOL, I thought for the first 50 the pacecar was a hybrid or something. Along with the Gatorade Vette, it's the worst pacecar paint I've seen.
Well, seeing as how this is a professional sport and supposedly a professional TV Network, maybe they ought to learn how to use it before they present it to the public.
We have to Invade Mexico first. And, Hopefully the Cup guys are breaking in Vegas.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 28, 2007 10:31:24 AM
A hybird. It certainly didn't look like a Monte Carlo. Maybe that's why Tony had to get so close. He had to be sure that was a bowtie on the rear end.
Actually, the Cup guys are testing the COT in Bristol. Heard a little bit on Sirius and they went from 19+ second laps to 15+ within 2 hours. That was around 11 a.m. Haven't had time to check websites, except TR's blogs, but curious to know how the day is going.
Guess I'll find out tonight at 7 on Speed.
Posted by: Shirley | Feb 28, 2007 11:04:29 AM
Shirley,
"curious to know how the day is going."
It's sunny and 50ish in Norfolk and I just took a bigass tire off the vette for cleaning.
It looked smaller because the orange showed up and the black sides didn't. It was a slimming color scheme...and it looked stupid.
It's not how fast they go at Bristol. It's how they affect each other going fast that I want to know.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 28, 2007 11:43:51 AM
Keith, good luck with that tire. ;-)
I'm sure they will be discussing "how they affect each other" tonight, but don't think they were on the track long enough this morning to figure that out yet. I heard Buddy Baker and John Kernan use the word "balance" a couple times.
If an extension cord didn't cost $49.99 for my Sirius antenna I'd have one and I'd be listening right now. That's a chunk of change of a piece of ooax. Maybe when I win the lottery!
Posted by: Shirley | Feb 28, 2007 11:50:38 AM
Shirley,
315.17.35's are always fun to work with. Look online because I'm sure theres a cheaper way to do a chord. And, how is that PIP coming along?
Posted by: Keith | Feb 28, 2007 11:54:53 AM
Just bought four Goodyear's myself, but can only remember 17/35.
Gave up on PIP a long time ago, but I DO HAVE five TVs now. Can't get anything past me, even without PIP!
Posted by: Shirley | Feb 28, 2007 12:12:13 PM
Make that 15/35. . .I was remembering the good old days of my '72 Nova.
Posted by: Shirley | Feb 28, 2007 12:15:32 PM
I think the Fox 3D was so DW and Larry could play a video game together.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Feb 28, 2007 12:55:23 PM
Kurt,
I'm still not sure a geek in the booth wasn't doing a Nascar game and his monitor got switched to live, so they ran with it.
Posted by: Keith | Feb 28, 2007 2:46:19 PM
You're probably right...that would fit in with Fox's broadcasting #1 rule...always find something other than the #$$(*#%@ RACE to show.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Mar 1, 2007 5:21:32 AM
