Subscribe to this blog's feed« IRL going after NASCAR fans? | Main | Steve Letarte, King Of France Mountain »
June 09, 2007
Let there be dirt
By DAVID GREEN
The third NASCAR Grand National race I ever witnessed was on a dirt track -- the half-mile Greenville-Pickens Speedway, in 1967. Richard Petty won. It was victory No. 12 in the King's fabulous 27-victory season of 40 years ago.
It was also one of the handful of dirt-track events remaining before the last one was contested. Twenty-one more dirt races would be held, in places such as Fonda, N.Y.; Maryville, Tenn.; Columbia and Greenville, S.C.; and finally, the last one, Sept. 30, 1970, at Raleigh, N.C.
So, whenever the ARCA RE/MAX Series goes to DuQuoin or Springfield, Ill., or ventures to some other location such as the Indiana State Fairgrounds or the West Virginia Motor Speedway near Parkersburg, I wax nostalgic about the days when NASCAR-sanctioned stock cars raced on unpaved ovals. And when Nextel Cup Series stars and drivers from other major-league disciplines take part in an event such as the Prelude to the Dream at Eldora Speedway, I get all stirred up about how great it would be if only...
Well, reality smacks me in the face before the goose pimples grow to great numbers or impressive size. Only occasionally -- to use official NASCARspeak, "except in rare instances" -- will I get to indulge myself in such treats. Only with ARCA cars, or only with star drivers in borrowed dirt late models, will I ever see this again.
The first season of what is now the Cup Series, the only pavement they ran on was the two-lane blacktop highway that served as one straightaway (the sand of the beach was the other one) of Daytona's old beach-and-road course. The half-mile oval at Dayton, Ohio, and the new Darlington Raceway came on board in 1950, giving the 21-race schedule two paved-track events.
That was very much the norm for U.S. oval racing at the midpoint of the 20th century. Indianapolis was still paved with bricks and the Milwaukee Mile's dirt would not be covered with asphalt until 1954.
Just two decades later, the dirt tracks were gone from major-league racing. NASCAR waved the checkered flag on the genre at Raleigh and USAC staged its last Championship Division races on dirt in the same season.
Since 1970, dirt-track racing has gone through a series of ups and downs. Many tracks -- Greenville-Pickens among them -- were paved in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Some of them managed to hang on to the second-tier Late Model Sportsman/Busch Series schedule for awhile, but now all of them are relegated to local weekly programs.
Meanwhile, dirt stock car racing began to develop its own identity. It has flirted with some level of national scope, from Robert Smawley's National Dirt Racing Association in the late 1970s to today's World of Outlaws Late Model series.
It's highly entertaining racing, but the cars have gotten so radical in their design, it's hard for some old-school fans to get very excited about it. Of course, some people feel that way about the evolution of Nextel Cup cars.
Could today's Cup cars race on dirt? Absolutely.
Will they ever, except in ARCA events? I don't believe so. But I wish I could be proven wrong.
June 9, 2007 | Permalink
Comments
I don't know about 43 cars on dirt at the same time but it would be awesome. How about a 2.5 mile track like Daytona but dirt. A couple of dirt races per year would definitly be entertaining.
Posted by: jeff | Jun 9, 2007 10:24:06 AM
I struggle with the notion of NASCAR back on dirt. The old-schooler in me would love to see what "old-timers" (no offense David) had the chance to see 40 years ago, but alas I doubt that would ever happen.
Now when Tony Stewart was trying to get IROC to Eldora I thought that would be great, even the field for Kinser!!
Great read as usual David.
Posted by: Mark | Jun 9, 2007 1:49:36 PM
The ARCA series features 36 cars in their 100-mile races on the one-mile state fairgrounds ovals. On a mile track, you could run 43 cars with no problems except, possibly, pit stalls. On a shorter dirt track, such as the 5/8-mile West Virginia oval or a half-mile such as Eldora or Knoxville, 36 would probably be a more realistic number.
In 1955-56, there was a 1.5-mile dirt oval west of Memphis in Lehi, Ark. I'm not aware of any other dirt ovals larger than a mile, not in NASCAR's history.
Also in the '50s, NASCAR ran on a 2.5-mile dirt road course, now the Willow Springs International Raceway, near Bakersfield, Calif.
Posted by: David Green | Jun 9, 2007 2:05:32 PM
One of the best races I ever watched was a rare SPEED broadcast of an ARCA race at DuQuoin. The only reason they televised the thing was because Tony Stewart was participating. It was wild to see those big cumbersome stock cars racing on dirt. I enjoyed it from the green flag to the checkers. I really wish SPEED would make it an annual telecast.
Posted by: Barb g | Jun 9, 2007 3:36:27 PM
I don't know David, Knoxville is AWSOME and before the "Iowa Speedway" opened, Hawkeye Downs was THEE only paved track of hundreds that dot Iowa, I KNOW that the France Family mafia will NOT put their OWN money into hosting a dirt event, But I liked what Kevin Harvick and Elliot Sadler spoke of a "series" to race Paducah, Macon, Eldora, ??SCHRADER'S?? Track...what they have 25 Cup drivers, i could see that, to race monies for the Victory Junction Gang Camp I could see that as a possibity. The grass roots tracks don't have enough "bling bling" to satisfy a "newbie" fan, I use to get that form my fans who come to see me race at these tiny little bull rings...although Elko Speedway has done fantastic job of upgrading it's facillities to attract a Busch East/West Minesota 150! I haven't been back to see it, But I hope to get to Iowa in Sept. for the Hooters ProCup, I may venture North a ways and see what all they done!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Jun 9, 2007 3:41:33 PM
Peavely....Schraders Track
Posted by: Fan #5 | Jun 9, 2007 3:43:04 PM
The 1 mile dirt track at the Michigan State Fairgrounds held two NASCAR event the '51 event was won by Tommy Thompson (51 Chysler) the following year Tim Flock won (51 Hudson).
Here is a good series of photos that includes the 51 grid: (http://tinyurl.com/ypcwmm)
This track was the genisis of my switching from drag racing to oval in the early sixties until the track closed in 1966.
Posted by: Marc | Jun 9, 2007 4:45:42 PM
David,
Dirt could be awesome for NASCAR. A champion should be tested on all the sports historic surfaces. Start it off as a non-points event and see if it makes TV enough money to keep.
Pros:
It's new. Or, at least it won't look like every other TV race.
Everybody hits something at a dirt race. Strategically placed in the season the drivers could vent a bit...legaly.
Cons:
Would need another car. The COT, having the splitter, could actually add meaning to, "It's driving like a snowplow."
If you don't remember to cover your beer...Well, that's self explanitory.
Dirty kids are hard to tell apart. Me, I'm happy if I bring home the same number. Trust me, most moms don't see it that way.
Dirt ringers. I'm sure we'd see some. But, like RC ringers, they won't have much influence. Some of the RC ringers even found new fame and fans...Right, Mr. Said?
Bring on the dirt!
Posted by: Keith | Jun 9, 2007 4:47:33 PM
If nothing else, a dirt race would get ratings back where they should be for a week.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Jun 9, 2007 10:35:08 PM
an official Nextel Cup race on dirt would be rather boring. The cars that they ran in Eldora on Weds night are very different than the ARCA cars that run on the dirt miles. I would love to see it, but I would rather see these guys trying to figure out a 3-link or 4-bar rear end shifting the LR forward while lifting the LF two feet in the air.
Keep things the way they are now....let the big boys come and play on dirt for fun but make them do it on our terms and not pimp-daddy NASCAR and their corporate ho's.
and Knoxville might be able to start 30 cars safely, Eldora is too small for anything more than 26.
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 12:50:00 AM
I missed the Eldora event. Any info on rebroadcasts?
Posted by: Doug in CA | Jun 10, 2007 3:09:04 AM
Doug, I have heard nothing about any rebroadcast of the pay-per-view event.
#5, the celebrity events in borrowed cars are terrific, and for that matter I like dirt LM racing just fine without celebrity interlopers. But what I'm wishing for is a Cup race, with Cup drivers in Cup cars, even if it's only an exhibition.
Incognito, you're entitled to your opinion. Obviously, Barb g, Marc, Keith and Kurt don't agree with you that a Cup race on dirt would be boring. Most of us, I think, realize the difference between Cup cars and modern-day dirt late models, which is why I distinguished between the ARCA events and the Prelude to the Dream. Dirt-track stock car racing was quite entertaining (to some of us, anyway) long before the coilover and multi-link rear suspension were invented.
Thanks to all for writing. It's 3 a.m. here in Kentucky, and I just finished washing away the residue of an evening at Tri-State Speedway in Haubstadt, Ind., which celebrated its 50th anniversary tonight -- last night -- whatever.
Posted by: David Green | Jun 10, 2007 4:05:41 AM
ok,with the precedent being set,(Eldora last wed.nite), a race on the dirt track @ Lowe,s(LMS)shouldn't be far behind.
the drivers are already there for speed weeks, the dirt race is on friday nite, qualifying for the 600 is on thurs, leaves wed.nite open.
c'mon Humpy, make this work.
Posted by: RCR fan | Jun 10, 2007 7:32:56 AM
David, do you honestly think the COT would put on a good dirt show? Don't get me wrong, I am a dirt track fan above all else, (60-80 shows a year) but I fear the Nextel Cup version of a dirt track race would be different enough from it's present product that it would not appeal to me. I just can't see the COT hiking up the LF and bouncing off the cushion.
NASCAR could dust off it's old touring dirt series that it abandoned in 2000 and supplement the regular roster with guest driver's from it's cash cow....that would be fine with me...but the France family really didn't give much support to the All Star Tour in the past so I do not hold out much hope.
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 11:26:02 AM
RCR fan, I kind of doubt that NASCAR would allow it's driver's to compete in too many dirt track races. What's happening now is small time and mainly for a NASCAR supported charity, but I can see that ending once it starts to draw away from the Cup series by allowing fans to see their favorite driver's for less than the price of a Sunday afternoon grandstand ticket, or one of the top stars gets injured on a Weds night and unable to compete on Sunday.
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 11:30:50 AM
incognito,
NASCAR has no control over where the drivers race. Teams are independent contractors and the drivers are in their employ. Sponsors and team owners have more say. But, if it's not in the drivers contract, who cares. It's not NASCAR's job to care who races. It's NASCAR's job to make it fair and safe!
Bring on the dirt.
Posted by: Keith | Jun 10, 2007 11:40:03 AM
Keith, we all know that what NASCAR wants, NASCAR gets. If they percieve that something is taking away from them....they will put a stop to it.
Right now dirt racing poses no threat to the cash box but if it did I have no doubt that phone calls will be made and the oval office would be busy.
Use Smoke's recent backpedal from his WWF/phantom caution rant as an example if you wish.
Let them race dirt....in dirt cars and terms, not NASCAR's.
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 12:17:03 PM
Cup drivers are pretty busy folks and don't have a lot of time for other races, especially higher-profile drivers like Gordon, Johnson, etc. Between team deals, testing, tire tests, and sponsor obligations, time off is precious. If you count the All Star event and the Clash, it's 38 weekends per year? And the "off season" is about 3 months? Naw, let 'em relax.
And Cup cars on dirt? Why? Racers do best what racing is: take a venue, design a car to race on it, and race. F1 cars don't work on dirt; IRL cars don't do motocross; dragsters don't do ovals.
An occasional charity event is fine, but if you like dirt racing, go to a dirt track and watch the guys who race there.
(Speaking of IRL cars - they put on a heck of a show in Texas, didn't they?)
Posted by: Doug in CA | Jun 10, 2007 12:19:24 PM
incognito,
Sorry, but unless NASCAR wants to make it totally their show...with a drivers union and pensions etc. They'll keep their hands off. Which, in NASCAR's favor, they have done, admirally, so far.
Posted by: Keith | Jun 10, 2007 1:06:17 PM
NASCAR has kept their hands off? When? They control everything they want to regarding off track activities, including placing sponsors with drivers and censoring their top stars. It might not be in the press, but NASCAR has a sneaky way of dealing with threats. Want another example? How about Tim Richmond or Scott Bloomquist being blackballed?
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 1:29:32 PM
Incognito, you are correct -- the COT on dirt would not handle in the manner you see in Scott Bloomquist's car, and no way would it keep up with it. The point is, it would not have to, because it would not be competing against Bloomer's machine.
Yes -- I think the contemporary Cup car would put on an entertaining show. Yes -- it would be somewhat different from, for example, the Cup cars at Bristol or Martinsville or Daytona or Charlotte. For that matter, the racing at Bristol is different from the racing at Martinsville and Daytona and Charlotte. That's exactly the point of my wish to have NASCAR add the dimension of dirt surfaces to the mix -- it is NOT what we already see.
If anybody interpreted my original post as a prediction of things to come, read again. Throughout, I pooh-poohed my own dream as far as the likelihood of it ever coming true. I don't agree with all the arguments offered above about why it could not be done, and rest assured that if NASCAR were motivated to do it, it WOULD be done. But I seriously doubt that it ever will be.
And, in my opinion, that's too bad. Not a catastrophe, not a tragedy, but too bad. So, I'll settle for the occasional exhibition, like the time Earnhardt and Red Farmer squared off in a match race in dirt cars at Talladega Short Track, and dream wistfully about what if.
As for Tim Richmond and Bloomquist being "blackballed," NASCAR's attitude toward those two guys certainly wasn't based on the fact that either driver had a prowess for racing on dirt, you know. Let's keep the discussion relevant.
Posted by: David Green | Jun 10, 2007 2:06:06 PM
David, I was trying to say that the car used at all NNC events in 2008 will require major modifications to even be able to turn a lap at speed, but my original point is that these cars are made to run straight on a hard surface. I'm not sure which modern day NNC car is in your dream of dirt or if your fantasy involves more business for GRT, Rocket and MastersBilt....but the COT seems to be the way of the future and it would not provide a decent dirt track experience of "turning right to go left" that is the major attraction of the genre.
In short, we do agree that it is great that these exhibitions happen and would like to see more of them. I think when we vary is that you want to see "a NNC race on dirt", I would to see "NNC drivers racing on dirt"
The Smoke, Bloomquist and Richmond references were relevant only because it shows that NASCAR controls everything about themselves and are well equipped to shut down any thoughts about going to the local dirt track to see their stars for a $20 bill paid to the local promoter instead of a $100 bill that ends up in ISC's bank account.
Posted by: incognito | Jun 10, 2007 4:16:12 PM
OFF TOPIC for a moment. It's a sunny Sunday here in So Cal. My wife left me alone to watch the race for the second weekend in a row, and for the second weekend in a row it gets rained out (or at least delayed - it's now about 4 PM in PA.)
BUT I did watch the coverage and wanted to say that Kyle Petty is the best commentator I have seen on TV since Ned Jarrett. Better than DW, McReynolds, Wally, Benny, Petree, Wallace, all of them. He strikes just the right balance between humor and serious coverage of the sport, and you know it was him who insisted on the piece on David Pearson. Kyle, get out of the car and into the booth full time. Please!
Posted by: Doug in CA | Jun 10, 2007 4:16:24 PM
Doug, like you I really liked the feature on Pearson and the King. Very well done.
Incog, we also disagree about the specificity of purpose of the COT. It's really not that different, in fundamental concept of design, from the Grand National cars of the 1960s that raced quite well on dirt. It's not like the front-drive Big Car of olden times, which did NOT work on dirt tracks because of its inability to allow the driver to exploit oversteer ("powersliding," as we simplistically called it then). It's not as radical as the modern-day mid-engine Indy or F1 car, with its aerodynamic, ground clearance, balance and fragility issues that would, in all likelihood, render it unfit for dirt.
It is not that much different from the Cup car that it is replacing, and I must repeat, because you seem to be ignoring it, that ARCA cars (Cup-style machines, not made by the dirt-track chassis manufacturers you named) DO race successfully on dirt tracks. That's not just a theory or a fantasy of mine. It is a couple-of-decades-old-and-still-going-strong reality. You may not enjoy these events, but that does not render irrelevant the fact that I do enjoy them and would like to see a NASCAR schedule that, like ARCA's, includes some dirt tracks.
The ARCA cars could not race competitively against Mastersbilt or GRT competition, but they are capable of racing against each other, with all the fundamentals that apply to the art and science of dirt track racing including the "turning right to go left" thing. Your position that they could not do so, to me, is tantamount to claiming that, just because winged spring cars may go faster because of their aerodynamic advantage, non-winged sprint cars are no longer suitable for racing on dirt. Cup cars can't go as fast as Indy cars, and some people thought NASCAR should never have gone to Indianapolis. I saw no problem with that, because Cup cars had raced at the nearly identical Ontario (Calif.) Motor Speedway years before. They didn't go as fast as the Indy cars of that era, but that did not mean they could not compete at the Ontario track.
If these dirt track events of my fantasy were NASCAR-sanctioned events, the question of NASCAR's approval of driver participation would be moot. Just as is the case with road-course events nowadays, in which "ringers" sometimes drive an extra entry or even take the place of a team's regular driver who doesn't fare very well on dirt, we might well see some different names in the dirt track events. I would be OK with that, because just as there are plenty of Cup regulars who can road-race just fine, there are plenty who could drive on dirt.
Also, I've never been aware of any official or under-the-radar NASCAR actions designed to prevent drivers such as Ken Schrader from racing wherever and whenever and in whatever they wanted to do so, and surely if anybody has tested your theory by helping put $20 bills into the coffers of local track operators (including himself), it is Schrader. NASCAR never went out of its way to accommodate it, but it also never tried to prevent Andretti, Stewart and Gordon from doing the 500-600 one-day double. Joe Gibbs, as I understand it, has some restrictions on Stewart's extracurricular activities in his contract, but that's a car owner-driver issue, not a NASCAR "Big Brother" thing.
I'm old enough to remember when sanctioning bodies were REALLY heavy-handed about maintaining control of the activities of their drivers. There was nothing subtle about it. If you raced in an unsanctioned event, you lost your AAA or USAC or NASCAR license, period. I'm not naive about the folks who run NASCAR, but I'm not paranoid about them, either.
Posted by: David Green | Jun 10, 2007 6:58:14 PM
Spot on Doug. Kyle is a natural for the broadcast booth and like a breath of fresh air. Somebody needs to sign that man to a long term contract.
The David Pearson segment was excellent. I hope a lot of newer fans to the sport got to see it.
Posted by: Barb g | Jun 11, 2007 12:30:11 AM
Post a comment
Advertisements
