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July 23, 2008
Why Penalize Toyota?
By Mark Young
You have got to be kidding me. Toyota is clearly the dominant manufacturer in NASCAR racing. Or should I say Joe Gibbs Racing is the most dominant team in NASCAR. Regardless of how you look at it Toyota came into 2008 with both gun blazing and they are flat out kicking ass. So what does NASCAR do but announce today that they are going to restrict some of the horse power advantage that all of the hard work has found for these team. THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD!!! Isn't racing supposed to be about being the first one to the finish line? Didn't NASCAR approve the Toyota engine previously? If Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge are behind on the power curve then NASCAR should be telling them to find more horse power.....not take it away from Toyota.
I swear, those people in Daytona are trying real hard to piss off the fans that remember what it was like when a manufacturer had an advantage and NASCAR told the other ones to buck up or get out.
U Want Some? Tell me what you think..............
July 23, 2008 | Permalink
Comments
why, becouse GM has cryed so much to nascar and nascar loves GM,Jimmie and Jeff won a lot of races last year ,and there was no rule change,and now they dont want a nother team to win hell thats cheating, but nascar has always had there boys,if the great Dale Jr won 7 races would you have a rule change hell no.Mr France should get out, and let the so call sport be run right ,and there money grabing hands out of the pockets of GM.Kyle can out drive anybody out there,and i dont like Kyle at all
Posted by: larry | Jul 23, 2008 11:12:23 PM
why, becouse GM has cryed so much to nascar and nascar loves GM,Jimmie and Jeff won a lot of races last year ,and there was no rule change,and now they dont want a nother team to win hell thats cheating, but nascar has always had there boys,if the great Dale Jr won 7 races would you have a rule change hell no.Mr France should get out, and let the so call sport be run right ,and there money grabing hands out of the pockets of GM.Kyle can out drive anybody out there,and i dont like Kyle at all
Posted by: larry | Jul 23, 2008 11:12:23 PM
Did anyone say shit when Felon Mototsports won a couple 18-19 races AND the championship last season? Who Has DOMINATED the Busch Series? So NOW mid season the Braintrust pulls out the industrial size Astroglide and GIVE it to Toyota...Why, Because Toyota came to class with it's pencil's sharpened
NOTHING absolutly Nothing was wrong with Toyota's motors...Reutimann's produced 3 percent...3 PERCENT more horses than the lowest of the 10! ALL OF THE PARTS ARE APPROVED BY NASKAR!...What if Toyota had went out and BOUGHT a Major drivers contract?...the F'n Jr nation would come unglued! Thanks Mark I don't need my coffee now
Posted by: Fan #5 | Jul 24, 2008 6:13:35 AM
the toy was given more HP to start the year just so they could win. wake up read the writing on the wall?
Posted by: G Stephens | Jul 24, 2008 6:52:15 AM
This is like when all the software companies went after Microsoft because they wanted everyone to use their operating systems. Same thing holds true here--build it better and you will be number one. If there was nothing illegal with the Toyota engines and they were winning more races, then so be it. Let the other guys work harder to catch up. Are you really going to feel good now if you win knowing it wasn't because of what you did, but because NASCAR change the rules.
Posted by: Peter | Jul 24, 2008 7:55:32 AM
The news is that the Toyota engines were not even the top five of the engines tested after Chicagoland! Great comments as always Mark...check out Mark Young's radio show U WANT SOME on www.racetalkradio.com every Wednesday night or any time you want via the archives!
Dennis
www.racetalkradio.com
Posted by: Dennis | Jul 24, 2008 8:02:31 AM
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I cannot stand Kyle ?Bush and don't like his brother too, but you cannot deny what Toyota has done. I am really getting sick and tired of all of the political BS that spews out of Daytona Beach and it is time that we get some real leadership at the top and just let the boys race. If FM and Ford want to compete, then they need to roll out their new engines and just see what actually happens.
Posted by: Lin Hunnicutt | Jul 24, 2008 8:13:33 AM
Wow! Mostly balanced comments on here so far. I'm not a Toyota fan either but can't believe that Nascar ordered them down. As one poster noted when Chevy basically won everything last year nothing was said beyond "they're just working harder than us." Well, this is a case of Toyota working harder than everyone else, in fact more a case of Gibbs working harder than anyone eles. Red Bull and MWR aren't exactly lighting it up are they? Nascar wonders why they have problems, well this is exactly another reason why. They can't stop monkeying with everything.
Posted by: canucken | Jul 24, 2008 9:34:53 AM
The reason Toyota was "penalized" (and they weren't penalized, but the rules were adjusted), is because they got to enter NASCAR racing with a "clean sheet" engine, purposely design by TRD for RACING only, because Toyota doesn't make any OHV engines. The Chevy and Ford engines are STILL required to be "based" on stock engine designs, and that's a distinct disadvantage to both makes.
Posted by: LBJ | Jul 24, 2008 9:58:57 AM
Well, I have said this for years, NASCAR and GM are bedbuddies. Remember the years Bill Elliot was kicking the bowties butt? Every race there was a new rule change there for a while, all geared to slow the NON GM car down. Remember the year that Roush had all those cars in the chase? GM cried like lil sissy girls! The annnouncers uttered DOMINATION every other word during that season. Chevrolet has NEVER had to work harder to win. Then last year, if you were not a Herndrick car you did not win often at all. The was because of the mysterious testing rule that everyone but Hendrick either obeyed, or misunderstood. NOT once did the talking head's mention that big "D" word. Nor were any rules changed because of it. This is just the latest example of Mike Helton's and Mr's Frances love affair with GM. Remember the unofficial rule boys.....
"IF IT AINT CHEVY IT AINT ALLOWED TO WIN!"
Posted by: Scott | Jul 24, 2008 10:16:50 AM
This is just another move in the long history of the sport that just proves Nascar will forever keep itself from being considered a legitimate sport. Chevy wins 22 races in each of the last two seasons in the Nwide series and not a word from Nascar. Toyota does crap their first season as was expected of them, follows their business model and aligns with a great company and starts winning races. They must be punished because Nascar is scared Detroit and the red,white, and blue fans will turn their backs on them. What a disgrace.
LBJ, that claim is nonsense. The big 3 have been building race engines decade after decade. Toyota didn't re-invent the wheel in 3 or 4 years. One of the smartest automakers has aligned itself with one of the best engine builders in the business and they are doing it right. That is all.
Posted by: Michael | Jul 24, 2008 10:18:31 AM
Thank you so much!!!I'm a dyed in the wool Ford fan and always have been. It is good to know someone else looks at the France family as we have for years. They have favored the GM cars for as long as I can remember. Ford has had to fight for every thing they have. We have only the Roush team to depend on. Now GM (especially Chevy) gets a taste of what we have always been up against.Yeah all the manufactures have good drivers and we all pull for our favorites but when the Chevy's are out run by them all and can only win by out gassing the field the powers that be want to start changing things. I personally do not like Kyle (we call him Baby Bush) or Kurt Bush because of their attitude. Kyle's ability to drive a car has been proven this year. PLEASE, PLEASE let someone else beside the France family run Nascar before it's completely ruined. I'd like to see it like it was in it's purist form when an independent could run for the Championship (not just big money) and a driver could handle his own problems with another driver.Thanks
Posted by: Elaine Terry | Jul 24, 2008 10:25:09 AM
I just can't believe that I love watching racing so much knowing that it's getting closer and closer to proffsional wrestling. If Nascar wants to have everything equal reestablish the IROC series. If they want money from manufacturers so that they can compete with each other within the Nascar forum they better quit penalizing that effort. Its obvious that David Greens posts have even more merit now than they did in the past two weeks. It also proves my point that fans this time are seeing it for what it is. One thing I know for sure is that when you flat out try to deceive your customers when they know better you better be prepared to suffer the consequences. Somebody at Nascar is trying to keep the GM gravy train comming at the expence of their reputaion. That is a horable business decision.
Posted by: Bob | Jul 24, 2008 10:57:02 AM
First of all I doubt Toyota will lose much in terms of performance edge because their program is better right now.
Second, there is legitimate reason to cut Toyota horsepower instead of telling the other brands to find more - the fact is the sport does not need the performance levels it presently has; it doesn't need 700 horsepower engines when 450 is enough; it doesn't need 180 MPH speeds on tracks like Indianapolis when 165 is enough.
People keep whining, "It's becoming like IROC." So what? IROC was about passing, not horsepower. Racing is supposed to be about passing, not about horsepower.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Jul 24, 2008 11:07:58 AM
This is nothing new. All you need to do is look back at stock cars history. Ford did the same thing to Richard Petty in the 60s when the hemi and Dodge got out of racing altogether. The next year Ford dominated with their 427 engine. Then Dodge came back because the Frances said the hemi was legal so they put that engine in the winged Daytona and kicked everyones butt again so Ford complained and the winged Daytona was declared illegal and Dodge was on the way out of all stock car racing. So as much as people say its a GM thing its much more of an american manufactures saying lets be lazy and let Nascar slow down the competition so we can compete. If Nascar thinks they can slow down Toyota, once again they are wrong. They will do nothing but eventually run off another great company and let us all watch the Ford and Chevy show instead of actually watching real competitive racing. The only way you get to the top is hard work, Dodge proved it in the 60s and Toyota is proving it now. This will only encourage the Toyota to work harder and Nascar will have to make them drag a boat anchor behind the car to slow them down.
Posted by: Richard | Jul 24, 2008 11:12:31 AM
Mike Daley I dont have a problem with the Iroc format but when Nascar say its manufacturer competition on display when its Iroc I have a problem with it. As far as cutting Toyota's power because the sport has enough again goes right to the point that you either let manufacurters compete or issue drivers a car when they show up to race. It is a team effort and the car building process is part of that. Why dont we put a bungee strap on Kyle Busches right arm so its harder for him to turn left he doesnt need that much ability anyway.
Posted by: Bob | Jul 24, 2008 11:22:35 AM
This is nothing new. All you need to do is look back at stock cars history. Ford did the same thing to Richard Petty in the 60s.They complained about the Hemi and Nascar declared it illegal.So Dodge sat out the next year. That year Ford dominated with their 427 engine. Then Dodge came back because the Frances said the Hemi was legal so they put that engine in the winged Daytona and kicked everyones butt again so Ford complained and the winged Daytona was declared illegal and Dodge was on the way out of all stock car racing. So as much as people say its a GM thing its much more of an american manufactures saying lets be lazy and let Nascar slow down the competition so we can compete. If Nascar thinks they can slow down Toyota, once again they are wrong. They will do nothing but eventually run off another great company and let us all watch the Ford and Chevy show instead of actually watching real competitive racing. The only way you get to the top is hard work, Dodge proved it in the 60s and Toyota is proving it now. This will only encourage the Toyota to work harder and Nascar will have to make them drag a boat anchor behind the car to slow them down.
Posted by: Richard | Jul 24, 2008 11:24:47 AM
Here they go again the Nascar Police and the crying Rouch and Harvick get their way. I'm not a Toyota guy but they did alot of R&D to get the HP they have. It's ok when GM and Ford came up with new heads and SB. Then Nascar tells mopar no Hemis and they have not given mopar anything engine mods, body mods etc. but The GM and Ford boys get what they want. I guess Rick H and Jack R grease the Mike H wheel. Nascar is starting to get like watching a tennis match. I guess if it is not Jeff Gordon or Carl Edwards winning Nascar gives Toyota the shaft.
Posted by: MARCO | Jul 24, 2008 1:58:23 PM
Mike, your an idiot. You can tell them all to build 300HP motors and it won't change anything. Someone like Toyota will still find an engine performance advantage. Your argument has absolutely no merit to the topic of this discussion, which is Nascar penalizing Toyota because they are winning and everybody else is complaining.
And the great success of IROC racing can be seen by the fact that the series is now defunct and they have auctioned off every car and piece of equipment. Further, the racing was terrible because the Nascar drivers dominated the series and the other guys wrecked into everything they could.
While may favorite driver does drive a bowtie, It is has been obvious for a long time that Chevy has dominated the sport for decades. Further, their engine designs and body changes have always been the quickest to be approved.
It is sad to see a company that has joined the sport to be serious and be legitimate, be penalized for finding success. How much, if any, this will change Toyota's performance will have to be seen. The arguement about Toyota has been that they are making more horsepower at lower rpm's, so it may not be a huge impact.
Posted by: Michael | Jul 24, 2008 2:00:34 PM
Did I Miss something? Isn't this new "bulletin" for the NATIONWIDE Series? Why are you all bellyaching about HMS and other Cup teams. I thought this was for the nationwide series not Cup? It would be nice to see some other teams AND makes win some races...especially in the Nationwide Series where some of these drivers our just trying to make it in a Nascar series and have to complete against all these cup driver every week.
Posted by: racrgirl | Jul 24, 2008 2:07:11 PM
I don't know where Mike Daly gets his ino from but...wow.
Penalizing a team, manufacter, or a driver because they have out worked the competition is total crap and is beyound my realm of thinking. 165mph at Indy..sorry I just reverted back to Mr. Daly's idiotic comments. I use HMS as a premise as to why this rule is bias. Last year HMS won 18 races in the Cup series. 18!!!! The dyno test showed that Toyota had about a 4hp advantage on Dodge and more than that on Chevy and Ford. You know what that sounds like to me??? Sounds like Ford and Chevy need to be asking Nascar to approve their new engine packages rather than pointing the finger at people who have worked hard to get where they are. Look at last year. No one was crying out toyotas. Everyone was saying that they are doing what was expected. Flopping. So what did they do? Go to work over the post season and introduced a new engine. and what else happened? Oh yea, they go Gibbs and Mark Conquest into their stable. This equals to what? A great season "headed" by a great team (Gibbs). Oh, by the way, how many other drivers have won in a toyota this year besides the Gibbs 4??
Point Proven.
Posted by: cmego2 | Jul 24, 2008 2:17:01 PM
Mark-
I still say this is like telling Tiger Woods that he has to play with a shorter club. Even though this is a rule change for the Nationwide teams, how long before the powers that be impose this on the Cup teams? I swear, every time I think that pope Brian and the boys have done the stupidist thing that I have ever seen, they out-stupid themselves. This time they just put the cherry on top. RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG AND MAY THE BEST & SMARTEST TEAM WIN, WHOEVER IT MAY BE, as long as you stay whithin the rules. (Oops, I forgot, just shake up the etch-a-sketch and we have the new rule book) I think that they are trying to resurect the i.r.o.c. series disguised as the Cup & Nationwide series. NASCAR-Please give us back our sport before it's too late.
Posted by: Neverlift | Jul 24, 2008 2:46:20 PM
Well said Mark.
I still have an obligation to cover NASCAR for the Frontstretch, but I have had enough. NASCAR will not sell me another ticket.
Posted by: Kurt Smith | Jul 24, 2008 3:14:59 PM
I agree with Kurt Smith and Mark Young..
RacrGirl..
Yes it is the Busch Series getting hit on this and Yota will get smacked by it.. Why include HMS and others.
Well lets see when Ford bitched about Chevy killing them nothing happened then.Thats the reason.. I forgot HMS "doesnt field a true Busch car" It falls uunder JR Motorsports now. So lets see its fair when Mark Cronquist and the engine shop and JGR killed themseleves for 24 hours a day to build a better motor, to get it "hit down now".. To me working for another entity thats BS. This is the production of Mark C, "Built a better mousetrap". But in the pockets ($$$$$) NASCAR reverts to changing the rule now.
As you said with the Busch Series the Cup guys need to get out and give the guys a fair chance to produce forward...
Daly,
You want IROC in Cup.. Nothingm more to say but you damn sure would..God forbid you want to make it where Chevy and Ford have to catch up..
Sorry but Mark C is the engine builder of the year
Posted by: Kurt2 | Jul 24, 2008 3:53:51 PM
racegirl - I'm bellyaching about the new change because NASCAR didn't change anything last year when HMS won half of the Cup races. I think that would have been a better reason to make a change than Toyotas winning in the NNS.
Posted by: Diane | Jul 24, 2008 3:57:03 PM
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