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August 31, 2008
Who are those guys, really?
By DAVID GREEN
To start with, let me state that I don't know either Carl Edwards or Kyle Busch personally. I got off the Cup Series rollercoaster before either of them arrived. All I know about them is kind of like Tom Cruise's line in "Days of Thunder" revealing what the Cole Trickle character knew about stock car racing: "I've seen them on ESPN." And Fox, and Speed, and TNT, et cetera.
So, for all of us who don't hang out with Carl and Kyle on a semi-regular basis, image is all we have to go on. I have to admit, I'm a little confused by the negative reaction to Carl Edwards' image as a nice guy. For all we know, that's really who he is -- a nice guy.
OK, we know Leo Durocher wouldn't have like that (if you don't get that reference, look it up) and we know why. But why do so many others believe that Edwards' persona is a fake?
Sure, he has faults. One of them is a temper that can be just as volatile as Tony Stewart's. (Leo would have loved Stewart, and would have used him as an example to support the Durocher theory of sports success.)
Remember the Busch Series race at Michigan in 2006 when Edwards came steaming out of the pits after a tangle with Dale Earnhardt Jr. and gave Junior the mechanical equivalent of a sucker punch? Cousin Carl got a $20,000 fine and six-race probation for that one.
Remember last year at Martinsville, when Edwards had problems with his Fenway Roush teammate Matt Kenseth?
As far as I'm concerned, those and other well-publicized incidents merely demonstrate that Edwards is imperfect, not that he's posing as a nice guy and is really, underneath that Nomex and that big grin, an evil person. Until I see concrete evidence to the contrary, I'm not going to accept the "Eddie Haskell" characterization of Edwards.
Conversely, it seems pretty obvious that Kyle Busch's image is that of an arrogant punk, regardless of what he really may be. He makes me think of something my grandmother used to say: "I'd like to buy him for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth."
Kyle may have a nice side to him. He doesn't show it very often, at least not as reported by the media.
The only NASCAR legend I can think of who truly evokes a comparison with Busch is Darrell Waltrip. Over the years, the driver Cale Yarborough nicknamed "Jaws" mellowed a good bit. I'm not sure that DW's present-day image of down-home country boy is completely genuine, but he's come a long way.
As for Edwards and his supposed "image" of good guy, I recall another driver who had a big, 32-tooth smile and an "aw shucks" attitude most of the time. I've spent a few hours around him, and as far as I can tell, that's no image. It's who he really is.
In his time, he was more likely to be compared to Sheriff Andy Taylor of Mayberry than to Eddie Haskell. He had his flaws, too, and his share of run-ins on and off the track with other drivers (one of them a civilian who was driving too slowly in the left lane of Interstate 85 one evening and got bump-drafted for his sin).
I wonder what today's hard-bitten fans would think of a contemporary Richard Petty. Have things gotten so bad that we don't even want a nice person driving a racecar?
One thing that is clear to anybody who's paying attention -- both Carl and Kyle can flat-out drive.
It's almost as if we don't even care about that too much anymore.
August 31, 2008 | Permalink
Comments
OH Blasphemy David! To even mention Andy Griffith and Carl Edwards...It's like comparing Michael Jackson and Nancy Pelosi...Oh wait there both white women we like to hate on.
When Carl came onto the scene with his "Aw Shuwks" I'm from Missouri heres my Carl Ewards Race Car Driver business card, I thought Hmmmm sounds like the a pretty good PR story with a happy ending, But looks can be decieving...And I got no beefs with Carl, BUT the ONLY clean Driver Roush had in there stable at the time was Mark Martin, and over the tenure of "Cousin Carl's tenure we've see the Eddie Haskell come out in him...
Now I'm not sure where all the Hatered for Kyle Busch comes from? when Kyle came into the sport I often accused him of running out of talent before his car did, and calling hom a Dart with no feathers, and if the tracks didn't have walls he be off in the twolee's, Since being released as an R&D driver for FMS, He has come into his own, I like a Hard Charging driver who very much reminds me of drivers in the past...Everyones jaws dropped when he won the first CON race at Bristol and said it sucked...I heard Sr say worse, I heard Sr with some colorfull language at North Wilksboro...I will admit I was none too pleased when he to Rocket out in the CTS...To me it keeps the fans talking around the watercooler on Mondays, And Nascar needed this type of excitement, because certainly "Brian's regime" is choking the everlovin' life out it...So far, this season all I've seen are Racin' deals...Kyle is having a dream season, and right now we've got the two strongest drivers trying to win the Championship, It's Kyles to lose...and when he loses...it only makes him stronger!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Aug 31, 2008 1:04:33 PM
Hey David,
All that's really changed is "birthday related" perception. ha.
David Pearson gave us a hint of the looking glass. When he did the Darlington spiff with Carl and he spoke his mind. His answer to what was different in his day, included "these guys make more money, but don't have any time to enjoy it." And, also commented about mirco-managing, too many rules and that Carl was not free to voice his "real opinions". All of which was most refreshing to hear.
Under the current microscope "the fight" may not even have happened and we may not even be having this conversation.
Kyle's victory lane style has become much smoother from, "the car sucks" to.. with enough practice, I too can be politically correct.
Only us guys who have not dated Amanda have any reason to be jealous of Carl. Heck, let the kids be just that for the short time that exists!
Posted by: Larry | Aug 31, 2008 9:18:34 PM
"HERE COMES JIMMIE JOHNSON!.....ZOOM!!!"
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9....
"THERE GOES BIFFLE!....ZING!!!!"
...10...11...12...13...14...15...16...17...
18...
"HAMLIN GOES BY!.....FWOOSH!!!!"
Wow Daly was right! Fontana is AWESOME!!!!!
What a race!
Not instigating, Mike, just bored and buzzed. Even beer cannot make this event interesting.
Posted by: Joe | Aug 31, 2008 11:00:50 PM
#5 -- uh -- I don't know if I understand what you posted. I was comparing Richard Petty to Andy Griffith's Sheriff Taylor character. As for you not getting why so many people are anti-Kyle, well, I really don't know how to help you understand that one, dude. You may love the kid, and we all agree he's one heck of a driver, but for most of us, it's really, really hard to LIKE him.
Larry -- yeah. Most people 40 and under probably don't get what I'm saying.
Joe -- so, do you think Carl Edwards might really be a nice guy? I know Mike doesn't care. He's just sitting there with a clipboard and pencil, counting lead changes, and as long as there are 3,000 or so each lap, he's happy.
Posted by: David Green | Aug 31, 2008 11:37:50 PM
Clever David Clever, you cought me speed reading...Naw I wouldn't go as far as saying I have a mancrush on Kyle...It's just he invokes the image of some hardchargers we haven't seen in quite some time!
Posted by: Fan #5 | Sep 1, 2008 12:24:41 AM
Yeah sorry to go off topic on your post Dave!
You know, I think he is nice to a certain extent. I look at the way he came up, driving those modifides, you have to be a little hard-nosed. At the same time his feelings come across as genuine. I have a good deal of respect for both his on and off track behavior. I believe he pre-emptively put up his defenses because he knew that he would be seen as the guy who, on one of NASCARs grandest stages, tried, and succeeded for a minute, to put the "Bad Boy", as it were, in his place.
I never caught an "aw shucks" vibe from the guy, just a real desire to succeed in this sport where success sometimes eludes the best of them, and a humbleness of knowing his place in the food chain.
Posted by: Joe | Sep 1, 2008 12:25:51 AM
Hey David Green, if there were 3,000 lead changes every lap the entire sport would be happy and far better off. So how about you lose the jerkoff attitude and grow the hell up?
Joe, re-read what I specifically said about Fontana? I noted Gillian Zucker's recommendation to make it a plate track.
As far as who Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards really are, what has merged is that neither driver is worth a damn, no matter how superb they are as racers. Therein lies an underappreciated pr of the sport's slide in popularity - in its zeal to prove its racers are not "vanilla" (why that's even a bad thing is never explained) the sport has hoisted upon us drives who are thugs on the racetrack and in postrace scuffles as well. That era was supposed to have died out decades ago
The comparison to Darrell Waltrip is apt because the sport didn't need him to be successful even though he won 84 races and three titles. It took the emergence of two other punk racers in Dale Earnhardt and Rusty Wallace for fans to suddenly start liking Darrell and was hardly universal, as he was booed savagely and deservedly at Talladega for wrecking Davey Allison and then lying about it afterward - I suspect he still lies about that wreck because that's what Waltrip is.
Bill Elliott kept winning Most Popular Driver in that era and later - say what you will about how the votes got in there, ut Elliott made himself a far preferable competitor than a lot of the racers who were better than him career-wise.
Posted by: Mike Daly | Sep 1, 2008 12:26:22 AM
Larry,
You have a good point, the NASCAR in the era of The Fight was, well...EVERYTHING was different.
I am only 29, but I like to think I have a good grasp on the way things are, and I consider myself well-informed on the way things used to be. From the way Higgins relates stock car racing lore, to my old man putting in his $.02, to me just digging up the past and forming my own opinion, I am convinced that even if they can really drive well, to the fans, that's only half of it. They want the good guy and the bad guy. Maybe now more than ever. If there was ever a reason for me to actually WANT to be older, it would be to have been a race fan during that period in time. Sheriff Andy Taylor was THAT guy. Under the likable (genuine) good ol' boy exterior lay a calm, wily, crafty individual who successfully enforced the law, without a gun! How cool is that?!
Posted by: Joe | Sep 1, 2008 12:41:55 AM
After reading all of this, the most profound difference I can see is that drivers then = always themselves and
drivers now = manufactured and closely regulated personalities. Some drivers (i.e. Stewart, Kyle Busch) try to toe the line until NASCAR pushes them back, but for the most part the lines are blurred now.
Fair point, Mike. long time ago in blog world, but fair point. While they're at it move it from the West Coast. Man I gripe about these tracks too much and they never change, I need to move on. Hey dude I love plate racing too. IMO the season should start, middle AND end at Daytona. In a perfect world. But with the Chase, and titles being decided in the last three laps of the season, a plate track would be too much of a wild card in that situation. Same for a short track. (which is why I don't think Richmond should be the final race prior to the Chase beginning; move it back two slots or move it into the Chase and drop Kansas or something) And i wouldn't say Edwards and Busch aren't worth a damn; I think Busch's antics are part and parcel of another time in NASCAR history. Edwards is the real deal, just rolling with the punches.
And with that, and with my typing going to degraded mode, see you guys tomorrow.
Posted by: Joe | Sep 1, 2008 12:59:28 AM
I completely agree with Joe's first post. When you've got one driver leading the race for almost the entire race .... I'll save those comments for Kathy's or another Turn 3 blog on point re Fontana.
About Carl and Kyle and who they are: no way to give an informed opinion b/c I don't personally know them. (Thank goodness re KB) My perception is: Carl is a decent guy, races really well with excellent equipment, seems more the well-rounded athlete than other drivers (and more fit), smiles nicely on camera, hungers for wins and the championship, and flips too damn much.
KB is full of himself, being that he's only 23 and wealthy already. He's "driven" to win top of the heap b/c he was summarily dumped by HMS. He's buttugly. He can race the wheels off anything, I'm sure. He's hungry for wins and the championship. KB refutes the boos and dislike by arrogantly bowing and enciting fans to boo louder. Basically, he has no class. Money doesn't buy class. Hard to cozy up to the likes of KB when there are better personalities on the track, like Jeff Burton -- well, that's my perception anyway.
Posted by: Doris | Sep 1, 2008 10:26:56 AM
I'll take a KB that is real and you know what you are getting (like him or not) rather than a fake persona like Edwards that pretends he's your best friend until he wants to threaten you (see Kenseth). In my world that fight has only one rule and that is win. When your way of life is trying to beat people into submission to your way of thinking, well lets just say I'm not that affraid to go to jail. Kyle is continually called an arrogant punk and Butt Ugly (proving my adjective theory) This is a twenty three year old that was given a contract and flat out screwed so a more popular driver could benefit from his screwing. All of those people saying he should be more humble, put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself how humble and polite you would be. Oh thats right its not you gettin screwed so its ok. Jr.s Dad died so his fathers fans can now demand respect for the decendant of a thug behind wheels. WTF? Not one time has a single person quoted Kyle saying or indicating he thought he was better than anyone else. That would be arrogant. Jr in my mind is probably one of the classiest drivers on the track, conversly a majority of his fans are human debris. How about teaching your kids when the bullies show up you should just be polite and put up with it espesially if thats how most of the pretty people think. The argument that he is too aggresive behind the wheel is an accurat one but the example of fair play and rule bending was taught to him and he has learned well. I hope this kid wins the title walks up to Hendrick and flips him off. When pushed against the wall this kid aint takin it.
Posted by: Bob | Sep 1, 2008 12:09:20 PM
#5 -- "Mancrush" -- that one made me laugh! Yeah, I thought you might have skimmed over the post (or else my wording was too vague).
Mike -- Well, if anybody ever wants to push your buttons, now they know just how to do it. But wait -- they push your buttons any time they write something that's not in step with your own thinking. If "grow up" is what you've done, I think I'll pass. Man, I couldn't live like that.
Joe and Doris -- Like you, I believe Edwards is genuinely a nice guy, albeit with a bit of a fiery streak. Funny how some people think the "fiery streak" is admirable in one guy (see Bob's post -- "When pushed against the wall this kid aint takin it") but not acceptable in another. I don't know Carl Edwards well enough to make the "fake" or "phony" accusation, and I strongly suspect none of the bloggers who have characterized him that way have never spent 30 seconds with him, either.
Joe -- Your comments remind me of the dangers of stereotyping. You obviously have a respect for the past, and I appreciate that.
Bob -- Off your meds again, pal? Deep, cleansing breaths, until you can get that prescription refilled. JUST KIDDING! JUST KIDDING! C'MON, PUT DOWN THAT CHAINSAW!! Seriously, my disclaimer about having never met Kyle Busch notwithstanding, I think you're right on two points. He does show you exactly what he is, and he very likely WILL flip off Rick Hendrick if he wins the Cup. (See Doris' remark about class.) I just don't understand how Carl Edwards has to be considered a fake just because he shows some anger at times. I guarantee you, if Kyle Busch did something nice, I wouldn't immediately think his angry young man persona was fraudulent.
Posted by: David Green | Sep 1, 2008 12:41:48 PM
I, too, will wait for someone (Keith, probably) to post on Fontana. I went and will offer my thoughts.
As for KB and CE, David's right: we don't know much about these guys at all other than that they are among the most competitive people out there. Anyone who makes it to the elite level of his occupation has to be so. You may have a brash and pushy exterior like Waltrip back in the 70s and 80s, or you may have a smooth as silk aura like Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, but scratch the surface and you'll find a fighter. Some hide it better than others, and maturity helps hide it. Some work very hard to hide the edge: they want to rake in the marketing bucks. Others don't - they get enough marketing money and don't care about more. See, for example, Tony Stewart. Kyle Busch will mature, and when he does, some other punk kid (who's maybe 12 right now) will come along and suddenly that black hat on Kyle's head will turn white before your very eyes.
Meanwhile, we watch Kyle put together an amazing season and applaud him for being one hell of a race driver. I regret the chase this year (like every year) because we're seeing what could be a great points battle between Edwards and Busch. Maybe it'll be just as close during those final ten.
Posted by: Doug in CA | Sep 1, 2008 1:25:11 PM
Kyle Busch, likeable........not hardly, but he can wheel a racecar for sure and that is what they are out there for. He got a raw deal and seems to be hell bent on proving it. If Kasey can't win the championship, which looks like the case, then I just as soon Kyle does. The only other thing he needs to do for the crowd is throw'em a kiss every time he wins. I don't particularly like him but it is what it is. Carl, I like ok, but am not sure, as with some others that his 'niceness' is genuine, and when it comes down to who I would rather have my back, I would rather it be somebody who 'says it like it is' then somebody who says what people want to hear, so I would have to pick little bitty skinny Kyle! LOL, Mike, appreciate the referance to Bill Elliott, so many times when people are talking about Waltrip, Wallace and Earnhardt, they seem to forget the impact Bill had on the sport or that he even raced, for that matter. A huge, huge, impact, but I guess he was/is just to nice a guy to report about.....i.e. The "aw shucks", personna of the red-headed boy from the Georgia hills. However, Bill's is/was genuine, he could get mad, as proven several times over the years, but he was pushed around a lot by Earnhardt, until he got tired of it, during one of the best races ever run to me........The Winston, don't race them like that anymore!!!!!!!Loved his book he has out to, he tells it like it was and probably still is.
Posted by: 9fanatic | Sep 2, 2008 6:35:22 AM
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